Michelle (00:51)
there? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Hi, I'm Michelle Bear and my business is memorable and vibrant Okanagan photography. Thank you.

Host (00:59)
It's so nice to have you on this morning. ⁓ Now,

are you from Kelowna?

Michelle (01:04)
I am originally from Vancouver. I've been in Kelowna since 2009 and it's a pleasure to be here.

Host (01:11)
Well,

thank you for being here. So do you mean Vancouver proper?

Michelle (01:17)
Yeah, I I grew up all over Vancouver. I spent a lot of time in Richmond. I lived in Surrey. I lived in Langley. ⁓ I think I moved here when I was 26 years old. So as a child, as a teenager in my early to mid 20s, I loved living in Marple, that South Vancouver area that's right between ⁓ downtown Vancouver and Richmond. I worked at the airport for a long time. So I spent a lot of time in that area.

Host (01:24)
This is all as a kid?

but we gotta stop here. What type of kid were you? What were you into?

Michelle (01:49)
I was into the arts. I was always looking for my art. I felt like it was a really deep journey for me to find out what my tool was because I always knew inherently I was an artist. I thought maybe I would be a nail artist or a makeup artist. I wasn't quite sure what my art would be. So I was quite artsy. I've also been told by a lot of people that I was very caring, very much like a care bear.

I remember once in the seventh grade, I went back to my kindergarten teacher because I was on this journey of like, who am I? Who do I want to be? What do I want to do with my life? And I asked them, what was I like when I was in preschool and kindergarten? And they said, you were the kid that was always going out putting on, band-aids onto other kids' boo-boos, making sure that everybody had a lunch to eat and somebody to sit with. So it's this mix of like an artist, but also somebody who was very, very caring. I remember.

Host (02:42)
to

interject this was did you say preschool? ⁓ because kids at that age are very much in their own ego like the fact that you're seeing outside of yourself and you're aware of other kids yes and what they're feeling that's

Michelle (02:45)
Yes.

Very

deeply. I've always been deeply empathetic and in tune to the struggles of others and wanting to do something to help other people. So there was sort of that side of my personality. But then also like my earliest memory was being about three or four years old and coloring, drawing a painting of myself and kind of stepping back and realizing like this big aha moment, like, my God, I'm an artist. Like that is my core self. And then when I got a little bit older, I got really into like,

philosophy and psychology just became like a very philosophical person like wondering sort of why bad things happen to good people. It was very much that sort of a person.

Host (03:35)
So when you say older, are you talking about Were your

parents, what were their interests? Were they artists?

Michelle (03:43)
No, not at all. And I always remember sort of fighting against the grain, being told there's no money in the arts. You can't be an artist. You won't make a good living. So was really going against the grain with parents who were medical. My dad's a pharmacist. My mom's a physiotherapist. They're both very academic people and very left brain people. So I went on to do three university degrees. very academic. Whoa. Very well educated. Wow. Yeah. Not done.

yet. I'm looking at a PhD right now because I just can't get enough.

Host (04:17)
your three degrees in.

Michelle (04:19)
Yeah, so I did Eastern philosophies, so like Buddhism, Taoism, metaphysics, Eastern spirituality for my first degree. And then I did applied psychology, so it was very much research psychology, how we know what we know, how we study human behavior. And then I did a master's degree in counseling psychology. So here's like the helper side of me. But even when I was going through all this rigorous academic training, I felt like there was a part of me that was untapped.

I was an artist and I wasn't finding an outlet for that. So eventually I stepped more into the arts and went against the grain a little bit of my family's culture.

Host (04:58)
Can I ask what, so if you've already done your two degrees, you kind of- three, sorry. Mid to late 20s at that point when you stepped out? And what was the first thing that you dabbled in?

Michelle (05:01)
No

Yep.

⁓ in terms of career.

Host (05:15)
in terms of like tapping into that artistic side that you've been is neglecting the right way.

Michelle (05:21)
Yeah,

totally. Glossing over sort of what it feels like. ⁓ I was never really fully stepping into my true self until I discovered my place in the arts. And it was actually very clear how that happened. One day I was working at a counseling agency in downtown Vancouver and I went for a walk on my break and I saw this door that had a sign over it that said, Therapeutic Photography. I was doing my master's degree in counseling psychology

and I was very focused on marriage counseling. I loved working with couples. That's always sort of been my jam, relationships, and I wondered what is therapeutic photography? So I instinctively just walked in there and met this really cool lady who turned out to be a lifetime mentor of mine. Her name is Judy Weiser, and she taught me how to use photography as therapy. So that was the moment things started to shift for me when I realized I don't have to be a healer or an artist.

marry the two and be a healer and an artist.

Host (06:24)
What was that moment? Like that's a very like an epiphany must have

Michelle (06:28)
It was. It was an awakening. felt like, I don't know how else to describe it, but almost like rain washing through my body, like so refreshing to realize like, wait a minute, this is who I am. And I must've been about, gosh, 23, 24 years old when I suddenly had this awakening that...

I can be an artist and I can be a healer at the same time and I can use the arts for healing and I can use healing in the arts and that's when I started to marry my careers to each other.

Host (06:57)
Can you talk about what you learned from, like, can you... I just need to get my thought here. Oh, you know what? I left the HEPA filter on. That's what that noise is. Wait, just a second.

Michelle (07:10)
No worries.

Host (07:13)
Hey, I will take it out. It's okay.

Michelle (07:16)
There you go. Thank goodness for AI. Yeah.

Host (07:19)
Okay wait, I would like to know more about...

Could you take some time to tell us more about that meeting her and what transpired kind of in more detail about like how did that relationship develop and what specifically did you learn from her?

Michelle (07:38)
Yeah, so I think the biggest awakening was the realization that I could be a therapist, that I could be a counselor, and that I could be an artist at the same time. Her office was just full of photographs that were full of meaning, and she taught me what therapeutic photography was and what phototherapy is. And these are copyright terms that Judy Weiser introduced to the counseling world, so this is her idea. This isn't something that I've made up. So I guess one thing to share is the difference between therapeutic photography and phototherapy.

So phototherapy is a therapeutic process.

through people who have formal training as therapists, they have insurance, they have supervision, they have continuing education, and this can involve looking at photographs, analyzing them, coming up with activities that choose your focus. So one of the projects I worked on towards the end of my master's degree was using therapeutic photography and phototherapy to help women trying to leave the prostitution trade.

So this was in like the downtown East side in Vancouver and she took us on this project that had amazing government funding. I remember being so grateful for that. And we would take these women who were trying to better their lives on photo walks and have them take photos of things that represent hope or represent beauty or represent change. And what this does is it allows you to focus on what you want out of your life and how to manifest.

your new reality through the arts. So phototherapy is an activity that's led through counselors, through therapists formally. Therapeutic photography is a little bit more casual. It can be some of the things that I do in my day-to-day work when I'm empowering women into feeling better about their body image or bringing couples closer together through wedding photography or helping families work out sometimes some awkward moments. I've done photo shoots where

I've been there when a family's ending an estrangement and it's the first time they've seen each other in 20 years. And I'm there to help bring comfort and ease and joy and beauty to the experience. ⁓ yeah. So I ended up doing my master's thesis on therapeutic photography and then sort of jumped into the world of business, not quite finding my place at counseling agencies or as a photographer at first.

Host (09:43)
Wow. Wow.

Michelle (10:01)
It wasn't until much, much later that I learned to synchronize these two things.

Host (10:05)
Can I ask where in

I'm stumbling on my words today. Like I cut all that out. But can I ask, ⁓ up until that point, were you dabbling in photography as a creative outlet or did you learn your photography skills after that?

Michelle (10:25)
That's a really good question. I'd always been interested, but it wasn't until I found the deep meaning and transformative aspects of the art that I got really passionate about it. I'm somebody who craves depth. And for a long time, I found the arts and photography to be a little bit superficial, a little bit shallow. And I found the world of therapy and counseling to be a little bit too technical.

lack of a better word, maybe a little boring, until I learned to integrate myself as a therapist who uses art in therapy and uses photography in therapy, and that's when I started getting really excited when I saw the power that photography had to change the world. So I'd always dabbled. I mean, since I was a six-year-old child, I was taking photos of

funny story is my brother, would dress him up in a wedding dress. He's gonna hate me for telling this story. I would dress him up in a wedding dress and have him marry the dog in this full set scene because I wanted to take photos of him on his pretend wedding day.

Host (11:32)
type of camera because this is another very interesting thing is like the development of technology too very much so back then we're what type of camera were you

Michelle (11:41)
It was

film and funny enough film is still my favorite medium. I love the unpredictability of it. I love the challenge of it. So it was always film photography with my brother. have so many That's great. I love that for us. love that for us. And then later on as a teenager, I found myself being the memory keeper. So whenever I would go out and have fun times with my friends, I was always the one with the camera.

Host (11:53)
questions. ⁓

Yeah, no, okay. ⁓

Michelle (12:07)
taking the photos. So I was always interested in photography, but it took quite a while for me to take the deep dive into it as a business and a career.

Host (12:16)
okay yeah and the whole it's interesting this is a little bit of a tangent but the the way the technology has evolved and now with our especially with the ai software and the pixels and yeah and i'm assuming the apple as well that we can all take like astonishing photos on our camera like it doesn't take much it's like a point and shoot now and you get this beautiful high resolution

It will take the picture at the perfect time that they're smiling, you know, and it's it's interesting For the young people listening to the podcast They've just never been in that world of not having that and what it was to be the memory keeper and to You only had like 12 shots like you had to make them last and you didn't know if it was in focus until you went and got them developed or or if you lost your camera roll like that was it

Michelle (13:10)
shooting blanks like a roll of film even now can come out blank it's never guaranteed and professionally when I do shoot film I always back it up with digital I'll do a film copy and a digital copy to make sure that my client gets what they're looking for but film is still my favorite medium by far

Host (13:23)
Yeah.

And okay, okay, okay. I'm gonna, I have so many questions, but I'm jumping ahead if I ask them. So I'm gonna wait, because they might come out naturally in our conversation. tell me more about like marrying those two things and then leading that in. You had a moment where you decided like the counseling wasn't doing it for you. Photography wasn't doing it for you. Merging them together and.

I'm assuming this is why you started your own business, because you could do it your way.

Michelle (13:57)
Absolutely, for sure. mean, there weren't a lot of opportunities when I first moved to Kelowna, either as a therapist or as a photographer. So I really had to create my own opportunities.

Host (14:09)
How come you ⁓ Can I ask what brought you to the Okanagan? ⁓ there you go!

Michelle (14:14)
Yeah, for sure. Love and marriage.

yeah. I met a man in Vancouver and he was moving to Kelowna. So he asked me to get married and move to Kelowna with him and awkward moment pause. Is it OK to say something off record?

Host (14:31)
absolutely. Yeah, it all gets, it all gets deleted.

Michelle (14:33)
Yeah, this particular part of the conversation is uncomfortable for me because we're separated and it's not clear the direction that we're taking. ⁓ I'm kind of awkward about answering that question because I don't want to come out as I'm still married or I'm not married because we don't actually know what's happening. I'm trying to avoid that.

Host (14:50)
So why don't we just

say, yeah you came here for love, that's true. Okay do you want, do you maybe want to just read, say restart that and then just leave it at, oh and then you could say you came here for love and then talk about what was your first job when you came to Kelowna?

Michelle (14:57)
Yes, that's the most comfortable.

So when I came to Kelowna, I was a practicum student still finishing my master's degree.

Host (15:22)
So yeah, let's restart that and just say you came to Kelowna for love and ⁓ when you were here, you were doing your practicum and then we'll just go off of that. Okay, what brought you to Kelowna?

Michelle (15:33)
I came here for love, love and family. And when I landed here, I had a position doing a practicum at the Kelowna Family Center. I was still finishing my master's degree. I was doing part of my practicum at Interior Health, helping them run an eating disorders group and integrating therapeutic photography into eating disorder healing. I was also working with autistic children using photography and therapeutic photography as a way to help them communicate.

Host (16:02)
wow.

You know, it just dawned on me that...

And I don't know the proper words to express this thought, but you grew up knowing, you grew up knowing even from like age four that you were an artist. However, you had very academic parents, so you want to please them so you go and do your academics. However, if you had

Michelle (16:19)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Host (16:30)
artsy parents, you probably wouldn't have gone and gotten your academics and become a counselor. And then because what you're doing you can't do unless you have that formal education.

Michelle (16:37)
KATHRYN

you. I think that's what makes me unique as a photographer. I mean when you talk about anybody can take a photo these days, I think this is what's special and unique about me and why I've been in business successfully for 15 years. It's the heart that I bring into it.

Host (16:56)
wow and then like it's in hindsight where you look back and like that's almost like yeah you couldn't do what you do without without that but i didn't i didn't actually finish my thought on everybody can take a photo on their phone because even the second part of my thought was though even though the technology we have everybody can take a decent photo on their phone there are certain you can tell when a photo is still professionally done

Michelle (17:05)
Exactly.

Host (17:27)
You know what I mean? Like your photos on your Insta, like you can tell that's not a... that's not your average photo. And there's this other guy I follow on Instagram where his photos, I like... they... you don't just look at them and move on. There's something about them that capture you and you like take a moment and you're like, I don't know what it is about this image. There's something about... I'm sure you could probably explain.

Michelle (17:55)
I

could, I'm thinking about it right now when I think about the Latin term photography, it literally means painting with light. So when I'm taking photos, I'm thinking about how I'm applying light to the scene. And I think that's part of what makes my practice unique. I use a lot of off-camera flash. I use a lot of unique lighting situations. And I think that's what helps me stand out from the crowd.

Host (18:15)
Maybe this is jumping ahead, but could we go into detail into the thought process that a professional has? Is this a trade secret? don't know.

Michelle (18:27)
And I think what you're getting at is something that's very different from everybody. I think you could probably interview 10 photographers and they would all have a different process, a different perspective.

Host (18:37)
Yeah, could you take me through your process into everything that goes behind each picture? Because it's not just a picture. It's not just a... It's like a very well thought out, purposeful moment. Yet, yet, even though being very thoroughly thought out, the picture is like genuine, like candid in the moment. not... You know what I mean?

Michelle (18:47)
Thank you.

Yeah, there's a bit of an element of chance there as well in working with what you're presented with. But for me personally, I gave this a lot of thought, you know, what my style is and how I work as a photographer. And I think I'm really looking for the best in people. I'm trying to find the best angles. I'm trying to find the best relationships. I'm trying to find the best background, the best lighting. And that is so individual to a person, to a couple, how you bring out the best in everybody and the best in their relationships. And I think a lot about bringing light

darkness and maybe integrating bit of shadow into the light so that the whole practice is very balanced and full of depth. I'm not the type of person who sort of glosses over everything with like a good vibes only attitude. I always like to say all vibes are welcome with me and I love knowing what makes a person individual and unique and bringing out the best in them. Like I was sort of getting at, I think there's a large element of chance and I think that's something that people don't always understand.

So sometimes people will want, you know, perfect weather or a golden hour or no rain on their wedding day. And I often giggle to myself, like, I'm not God, I'm not mother nature. can't control the weather. I can only work with what I'm given. So there's definitely an element of chance. I'm also looking for connection. So my main practice is wedding photography because I love love. I'm inspired by love and connection. And there is a little bit of

creating and co-creating. So I often draw on my marriage counseling background as a way to cue people to come together. So a wedding day can be stressful. Sometimes people are anxious, there's a lot of money, there's a lot of excitement, there's a lot of family. So I'm able to use those marriage counseling skills to be like, hey, look each other in the eye, remember what brought you together in the first place. Trying to gather like what a couple's strengths are is part of my process as well. Like this couple's

very physical, this couple has a very good friendship, this couple's very funny, this couple likes being serious and moody, so there's always this very individual aspect of it and I think maybe that's something that sets me apart. I'm not trying to force anything on people, I'm just working with what's there, but making it the best that I can. Does that make sense?

Host (21:25)
yeah I didn't think of that and you have such a deep ability to like connect and empathize with people you just get their energy and then you growl and try to capture that energy as opposed to being like these are my standard shots I do

Michelle (21:39)
It's

always very individual, very unique. I've photographed up to 450 weddings at this point in my career. Whoa, really? Yeah. And I can honestly say no two are the same. Like every single experience is completely different.

Host (21:55)
When and then when is it just you or do you have people who work with you?

Michelle (22:00)
So I've definitely shifted team members over the years. started with a certain team. I've had other second shooters come in and out of the business at

this point I'm working mainly with my 15 and a half year old son. ⁓ cool. Which is really exciting. It's become like a mother and son venture and we love running the business together and he brings so much youth and energy and vitality and my son Max is just like a ball of sunshine. I feel like I'm bringing just a sun god to every photo shoot I bring him on with me. So I've been in business for 15 years and I'm very excited about the next 15.

Host (22:34)
⁓ and then I can just imagine have you ever have you ever had the thing where you wish you were standing somewhere else to capture a moment like you must must have had that you know I'm

Michelle (22:46)
Pretty... how do I put this? Accepting of like, is where I was in that moment, this is where I am, like I'm just very accepting of what sort of reality is gifted me with in that moment. But to that point, I've always enjoyed working with the second shooter because they can be somewhere else. Yeah.

Host (23:06)
Yeah, getting the other angle. And

then when you do, when you say wedding photography, I'm assuming people will hire you for different, like it could be the whole weekend or just the wedding or the after party or usually, is there usually like a set? I never had a formal wedding. My husband and I eloped. I only know what I know off of like Hollywood and you know, a few weddings. The weddings you go to, you don't really...

Michelle (23:20)
Is it?

Host (23:35)
Notice the wedding photographer. Good, right?

Michelle (23:37)
I

try to be a fly on the wall. That's how you get those candid moments is by not being too.

Host (23:42)
Yeah,

like I'm thinking back to the weddings we've been to, I'm where was the photographer? ⁓

Michelle (23:48)
being

a wallflower so you can capture those natural moments. You don't influence it too much. I like to think of it as a co-creation. I'm influencing a little bit, but they're bringing a lot to me as well.

Host (23:58)
At 450 weddings, that's a lot. You just must learn so much over the years.

Michelle (24:04)
so

much about love and different pairings and you know hope. I've seen people get married three times five times. I've seen people get married in their 70s. We had a couple in their 80s this year and it was so adorable so beautiful. It's never too late to find love and that's you one of the best. are.

Host (24:24)
little

romantic.

Michelle (24:26)
I'm

a little obsessed with love. Like love is the answer to most of the questions in my heart. Really. I sit in the space of love and to get back to your question about sort of structuring of wedding photography, we have different packages. So we can do a one hour session. We can do two hours. We have a four hour offering, a six hour offering, an eight hour offering that comes with an engagement session. So it really depends on what the couple's looking for. There's a lot of variety.

Host (24:55)
Do you have a favorite that you like to do or do you have a favorite time in the wedding that you look forward to?

Michelle (25:01)
Yes, absolutely. For me, it's the couple's photos, the couple's formals. I love the ceremony. I really like the details of, say, a reception. I enjoy the family photos. I enjoy the bridal party photos. But for me, it's truly the intimacy between two people. And when I just get to capture that love, like, you know, to get deep with you, like, it's a God moment for me, witnessing the connection between two people. That's really what gives me life.

Host (25:30)
The that there's someone there to capture love.

Michelle (25:33)
And to co-create it as well. Like I am aware that I'm helping to co-create Bringing people together intentionally at their best.

Host (25:38)
Right, you were saying that. Yeah.

And then with your, you do a lot of what's the terminology called? Like if you're, if you're doing photos for a wedding, do you also go around and take photos of like the flowers and the table settings and the, like the things, like the memory things of all these.

Michelle (26:00)
Yeah, and I've been complimented on my detail shots that I've been told by other people that that's something that I do particularly well. It's just capturing the details and the artistry and sort of the feeling or the vibe of the day. That's something

Host (26:15)
That's something that to me it almost is contrasting because you're so good with the connection and the love between people and finding and being a part of that, helping to develop that moment is very different than capturing the wedding invitation on the table and yet still giving this inanimate object feeling.

Michelle (26:40)
Thank you. I think I do that well. I think that that's one of my skills and I'm very much applying the love that I'm gathering from the family, from the bridal party, from the friendships, from the couple. I'm very much taking that energy into photographing the details. It's not just an inanimate object for me. This is their favorite candy. This is their cake. These are their lovingly chosen flowers. I can feel the love for the objects as well.

Host (27:09)
and just to make it look like something like, ⁓ is incredible. I've already talked about this on the podcast, but I tried to make like a ham and cheese board for my daughter's birthday and it looked absolutely terrible. And I realized like just, I'll take this out. This is just between you and me, but like, we were just having a basic birthday without family together and we were having sandwiches. Very simple because we got vegans and

vegetarians and carnivores and ⁓ Half the family celiac and we have nut allergies. We have dairy allergies like you know how life Be happy so we're like, why don't we just do a sandwich? Leo and you can make your own based on what you're able to eat And so I was put on like the meat and cheese board. It is very simple, right? I'm putting the meat and cheese board together and I'm like this looks like crap like this looks terrible and then I realized I'm like

Michelle (27:47)
I'm to make everybody.

Host (28:10)
this is like this is an art this is a craft like to make this like and you know and and there's probably all this amazing like rule of thirds and like texture and you know color and the size of the pieces and where they go like there's all this stuff that does not come naturally to me at all i was like and so when you're when i'm thinking of those still objects yeah

It reminds me of this chikootery board. Like that's funny. Like me taking a picture of this wedding invitation or the place setting would look like my chikootery board.

Michelle (28:50)
terrible. it's like they say you know it takes 10,000 hours to get good at something and I'm not sure that I just instantly came out of the gates good at this. Actually you know I'm not sure that that's true either you know I think I always had like an instinct and yeah natural inclination to make things beautiful.

Host (29:03)
like a natural.

Have you formally trained yourself at all with like arts, tech, and like?

Michelle (29:11)
artist, formal treat,

no formal training, colors, I work on pure instinct.

Host (29:15)
Shady

symmetry in your balance and your rule

Michelle (29:20)
No,

people literally get annoyed with me sometimes because I have no education, background or training in this field. It's pure instinct. I just know. And it's taken me a long time to develop my style. know, probably the first 10 years of business, we're very much developing my style and maybe ignoring the rules, ignoring some of the trends and just finding what works for me. I'm very much...

Host (29:28)
Do you just know what looks just like?

Michelle (29:46)
intuition person. So just working on instincts and figuring things out as I go as opposed to the technical training. ⁓

Host (29:54)
interesting

hey hey have you your photos would be like an interesting like art class study because you'd be like you could see this photo being in front of these this is the teacher side of me yeah like we put your photo up in art class and then we're applying the like this person used these different like artistic what are they called they're called something

They're like,

There's a whole, can I pause? Can we pause? I'm going to look this up. I'm like, I've taught this before and I don't remember. What is it called? Art. ⁓

like shading and balance.

Michelle (30:27)
For

sure. It literally annoys people sometimes that I have none of this training and I've been so successful. Speaks a lot to natural ability, I think.

Host (30:35)
The radial balance, asymmetrical balance, symmetrical balance. What the heck are these things called though? But this is like under... ⁓

this is gonna bother me. This is gonna bother me. What the heck is it called? I'm gonna have to email it to you later.

Michelle (30:52)
Yeah, and this is my skill, I think, that I don't think too much about any of that.

Host (30:56)
Yeah,

no, I just think it would be really funny if you were in class and had one of your photos up and then the class like dissects your photo based on the technique, like the art techniques, and then you're sitting back there being like, ⁓ I didn't know any of these.

Michelle (31:09)
was

just playing around. I was just making things up.

Host (31:12)
But that in itself would be such a cool lesson.

Michelle (31:15)
I have

guest lectured at photography classes before and my guest lectures look a lot like the feeling of the photo, the emotion of the photo, the psychology of the image.

Host (31:26)
it

would be cool for a kid to like you know they learn the technical side in art class and then to be like so you have your photo and they dissect it in the technical words yeah and then to know that you didn't know any of that and it just came from instinct and then the kids would be like ⁓ you know there's a balance between all the instinct and you yeah

Michelle (31:41)
completely.

And I'll...

So people will say like, well, you can't take photos with backlighting. That's going to look terrible. I've had people say that to me a dozen times at weddings. The sun behind the person.

Host (31:53)
backlighting being... ⁓

so they look silhouetti kind of?

Michelle (31:59)
⁓ It creates a certain glow, so I will technically balance the light coming behind the person with more light in front of the person so that it's light all around. But a lot of people who've been technically trained in photography have actually literally told me off at weddings, like, you're doing it wrong, that's not how you do it. It's funny, this has come up at least a dozen times in the last 15 years, just people saying, that's not how it's done.

Host (32:23)
and they're like telling the bride, hey, you've paid for this. wait till you see the photos.

Michelle (32:29)
Absolutely,

absolutely. It challenges my ego for sure, but I have lot of confidence to know at this point that I know what I'm doing.

Host (32:37)
that's cool. So what's your editing process like after? Wait before that how many photos... You laugh. I see you laughing. How many photos do you think you're clicking per your average wedding? Because this has got to be a lot of photos to go through.

Michelle (32:56)
So an eight hour wedding on my own, about 5,000 photos. ⁓ with a second shooter, about 8,000 photos.

Host (33:04)
And you gotta whittle this down to how many?

Michelle (33:07)
I take the top 10%.

Host (33:10)
⁓ wow.

Michelle (33:11)
So the first part of the process is recognizing what is the top 10%. And I would say that's something I've gotten so much quicker with over the years. That's what used to take, gosh, I'd say 40 to 60 hours just to decide from an eight hour wedding which photos are the best. Now that process on an eight hour wedding probably takes about 16 to 20 hours. So I've gotten it to about half the time, but it is very time consuming.

Host (33:37)
just

thinking also the amount of storage space your computer must have. ⁓

Michelle (33:44)
50 megabytes per photo. So I do it all in external hard drives. So none of it's in the computer.

Host (33:46)
Holy smoke!

Are you

putting, you must be putting in new, ⁓ what do call it? Storage chips into your camera throughout the, throughout the day? Or can your little.

Michelle (34:00)
Mine are pretty big. So at this point I have cards that can store up to about 5,000 photos. So if it's over that, I do more than that. But the culling process is definitely hard work. There's a lot of eye strain involved. So it's looking for the most in-focus images that are flattering to the clients, that tell a story, that have a genuine emotion behind them. That's sort of what I'm looking for in the culling process.

Host (34:29)
you cull your... because you're saying you do film, your favorite is still film and you do digital, so how do you cull your film?

Michelle (34:38)
So film is sort of a different conversation completely. Let me finish taking you through the editing process as a whole. And then I'll tell you about film and how I use film. So there's a culling process. know some people these days are using AI to cull. And AI will use images where people's eyes are open, where they're following the rules of thirds, where things are perfectly exposed.

I don't do that because I'm breaking all the rules. So I do it myself. And then after I've culled all the images in the last five years, I've started integrating a bit of AI, which has made things very efficient for me. So say I get the top 10 % of program of photos, I'm running them through a program that's going to fix the sharpness of the photo, the exposure of a photo, the color of the photo. This program is called Imagine AI and it saved me probably about 60 % of

my time spent in editing. doesn't do things perfectly and what it does is it measures things very technically. So if you want to be creative, the technical output's not necessarily what you're looking for. So I'd say at this point, AI is doing about 60 % of my work and it's allowed me to take on more projects and have more time with my family. So I'm very grateful for AI helping me through this process, but there's still no taking out the human element because it's technically perfect as the image is

be, it's not necessarily the wow factor that I'm looking for as a human being. So me and AI are playing nicely together.

Host (36:09)
Well that's good to hear that it's benefiting you. It gets to benefit almost every profession out there.

Michelle (36:14)
Absolutely,

absolutely, but there's a lot to be said to that it can't do the whole job I think there's photographers who use AI a lot more than I do people who are sort of technical perfectionists And that's not necessarily what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something different something interesting Absolutely the emotion I get

Host (36:30)
AI ⁓ gets

you almost there and then you're there to like take it home sort of thing.

Michelle (36:38)
Yeah, for sure. Or to make changes to make it more interesting. But it's definitely done a lot and I'm grateful for the support that I get through AI. It's allowed me to have a lot more time with my family. So that's a really big deal to me.

Host (36:50)
What's the feeling like when your package is all put together and then you finally get to share it with your client?

Michelle (36:57)
That's

the best. That's what I live for. Like there can be a little bit of stress in wedding planning. There can definitely be stress day of. There can be quite a bit of stress in the editing process. I mean it can take 40 to 60 hours to edit a wedding. And at first when you're looking at all the raw material you're sort of seeing maybe my mistakes or things that didn't go as smoothly as I wanted them to. But that's really the highlight moment for me when I see the final product and I get it out to the client.

99 % of the time, thank goodness, my clients are over the moon. They're thrilled. They're so happy with their product. And it's that gratitude and that feedback that just fills me with life and gives my art and my career so much meaning and purpose. And to get back to your question about film, the interesting thing about film is...

Host (37:41)
That's... yeah... Yeah. ⁓

Michelle (37:48)
There's no editing. Like, I don't edit film. So film is just looking at what worked out straight out of camera. I find there's a more challenging technical aspect with film because digital photography can make a lot of changes in editing. My camera's got a big brain. It tells me what to do. It suggests certain things. But film is just such a pure art.

And honestly, you know, I've been going through my last 10 years of film. have, I'm going to tell you about two, 3000 rolls of film that I'm looking through at home right now for an art gallery. And it really strikes me how few photos and film are truly amazing. So when I say I take the top 10 % from digital photography, film is like maybe 1 % works out. It's quite an expensive hobby.

Host (38:39)
Do you develop it yourself or do you take them? they still do.

Michelle (38:41)
It's London drugs. film.

Yeah, they scan it. They put it online and you can download it. So I won't rely entirely on film because it's expensive. I'm gonna lie. It's a little bit unpredictable. It's quite unpredictable. It's technically very challenging, but I like to throw a little bit of film into my wedding work, into my portrait work. And then in sort of a different vein of my career, I do art galleries purely in film photography.

Host (38:52)
the end.

wow.

Michelle (39:12)
Yeah,

I've had three galleries so far, ⁓ two that were really, really well received. The first one was called the Hope Card Series. So it was about finding light in the darkness during dark times. And I made a postcard series that supports the Foundry Kelowna. 18 % of all sales of the Hope Card postcards are donated to help mental health services develop and to teach how to use art therapy to other therapists. And quite honestly, it's my own art

therapy. When the world is feeling dark, I take my camera out and I start looking for the beauty that's still in the world. So that was my first gallery that I've had running for, gosh, decade now. It's been really, really well received. I've had quite a few opportunities to showcase this gallery, and I always include charity in it. And then after the pandemic, my second gallery, I would say, it was a little heavier, but still full of hope. It was a series called The N.

point.

And this is interesting because it was made mostly off of the end of rolls of film. So the very last photo in a roll of film is ripped off. So you'll have like photos of like hearts in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, but half of it is missing. Or I have one that sells really well. It's a bunch of lavender, but half of the frame is missing. And I think what that allows people to do psychologically is sort of fill in the second half. Like what would you put into the second half of this story?

featured at the Rotary Center for the Arts and a few other galleries. And I had a lot of fun naming these images.

sort of theoretically for things that I'd like to see sort of as a social justice warrior end in the world. So was like the end of war, the end of abuse, the end of, you know, poverty, the end of a bunch of things that were difficult for people to deal with. And this gallery was really, really well received celebrating unusual endings was the tagline. So I'm still shooting for the end here and there. think it's a beautiful celebration of, you know, end of life and changes and

shifts in society by putting it out in beautiful and inspiring ways. And then in the last five years, I've kind of balanced these two galleries, the Hope Cards series in the end, with something very middle of the road called liminal space. So I've been shooting for liminal space for the past five years. I've been traveling around the world shooting liminal space. And to my mind, this is the moment that things change. It's the space in between. It's like a wave that's about to crash onto the shore or the feeling that you have

an airplane where you're not where you've been, but you're not quite where you're going, or like psychologically a stage of healing or recovery. You're not who you've been, but you're not who you're gonna be. And so I've been using this as my own personal art therapy and to inspire community and togetherness and very much with the idea of

mental health advocacy, saying it's okay to meet you in the messy middle, it's okay to be in the middle. And I actually had this art gallery debuting in December. I'll shoot you an adventure, I misspoke, I'll shoot you an invitation to Liminal Space. have artists writing about Liminal Space, it's going to be in support of the Canadian Mental Health Association, specifically with efforts towards establishing universal mental health care, because in my role as therapist and an art therapist, I'm finding that a

lot of people can't afford these services. So I'm using my art to promote the need for universal mental health care.

Host (42:49)
Wow, that's cool. Thanks. You know where my mind goes when you when you were talking there was when you were talking specifically on the airplane you're not where you were but you're not where you're going to be that to me was like postpartum after your first kid. absolutely. You think you're the same person but you're not and you can't go back to the life you had you will never have that life again.

Michelle (43:08)
Really? That's a great example.

identity shift.

Host (43:20)
and that you're not, you don't quite know what it means to be a mum yet and you and even your partner and you don't quite understand what it means to have a family now and the whole identity of everything and you know and then you're in that i think that's when the hardest thing when you start a family is like just yeah like what yeah

Michelle (43:31)
That's a great example. That gives me sh-

Who am I now?

And we're constantly shifting throughout our lives. You think about transitions like retirement or even going into high school or even like a weight loss or a health journey or recovering from substance abuse or depression or mental health issues. You're not who you were, but you're not quite yet who you're going to be. And I just really wanted to honor that process through art therapy. I've had a really enjoyable time creating this gallery.

Host (44:05)
That's neat. Yeah, like the more you stop and think there's so like all aspects like at any given moment in your life you're in some sort of transition. It's just a matter of how like enlarge isn't the right word, but how significant that transition is.

Michelle (44:23)
Absolutely, and I love the idea of celebrating transitions, you know, because people can get a little bit anxious or a little bit uncomfortable with the idea of the unknown. But I like to see it as a place of possibility where you're able to create the reality you want to be in. And when I think about photography in all of the outputs, know, weddings, fine art, film, art in therapy, therapeutic photography, it all comes down to deciding who you want to be and using the intention of the art to create your reality.

Host (44:53)
Yeah. You have the end and then like your wedding photography. It's like the beginning, you know.

Michelle (45:00)
Absolutely,

absolutely. And you know, it's interesting, it's sort of like a side note, not side note. I was finding after my background as a marriage counselor, there was like this...

cognitive dissonance going on, where I was helping couples at the end of their marriage and also helping couples at the beginning of their marriage. So probably about six months ago, I decided I no longer want to do marriage counseling because it was kind of incongruent to holding the hope for new couples and I just wanted to focus on the newness and the beauty of what we're creating.

Host (45:33)
Oh, interesting. you know, I was also yeah, so you stopped that six months ago because I was trying to put together the time you were saying it takes around 40 hours, give or take 20 for your editing. You've done 450 weddings over the last 15 years. and you had another job like that basically is a

Michelle (45:48)
Yes,

So I'm a two-time business owner. I run two businesses and the way that I'm making that work is they're both very seasonal. So the wedding business is very busy between April and October and then I don't see any weddings in the winter. Whereas being an art therapist, I'm very busy in the winter and very few people come to therapy in summer. So I've kind of managed to... ⁓

Host (46:15)
Look at you!

Michelle (46:17)
Yeah, it's only been about the last six months that I've really smoothly married these two arts and found out what they have in common so that I have one identity as a therapeutic photographer as opposed to feeling maybe a little bit torn, a little bit fragmented.

Host (46:34)
yeah ⁓ interesting it's kind of that's kind of really neat how your life has gone the way it has you know yeah no one is though yeah but ⁓

Michelle (46:42)
I'm a very integrative person, not black and white.

Host (46:49)
⁓ I just need a moment to reflect here.

Michelle (46:51)
It's really

cool to see you sitting with that and I think this is a unique story like you're not really going to sit with any other wedding photographers that have this background. We all have our own skills. I admire my peers greatly but I know that I am unique.

Host (47:05)
Yeah, you really are. having, and like just the amount of education you need to be a counselor and getting your masters and you're, and you're working on it. You said you're working on your PhD.

Michelle (47:14)
So

I have an idea that, you know, a lot of my destiny feels like it's pulling me towards community leadership, sort of showing the beauty in the darkness has been my purpose. So I'm looking at a PhD in community leadership and sort of seeing a future future future for myself, or maybe like I'm on

I'm in places where I can create social change. So when I talk about liminal space, it's a lot about seeing the problems with the system, Canadian mental health care system, that's severely lacking. And I want to know how I can use my art to affect change. So my idea, and it's just an idea right now, is to put together a research scholarship.

application. I've received research scholarships before, so I'm fairly confident in this area to interview people and talk more about

how we can create a universal mental health care system that protects everybody. So this is sort of like my social justice warrior piece and maybe academic addiction. You know, this is my thing that I love. Some people like fast cars and purses and nice clothes. I love academia. This is like my Mount Kilimanjaro and I just want to get to the top of it. hopefully I'll be able to get funding to go back to school to study. could see myself on city council talking about

mental health and the arts and how these two things impact each other and can change the world. Cool. Yeah, I'm working on it and I think there's a good chance that I'll get there and if I don't I think it's really cool that I'm not that attached to it either. I'm pretty comfortable going where life

Host (48:46)
That'd be cool.

Yeah and whole it's just you know so much of life is doing something and even the process of doing that if you don't get it another opportunity arises through that process.

Michelle (49:08)
Absolutely,

there's a chance element, there's a destiny element, but I'm very goal-driven, I'm very ambitious, so I figure shoot for the moon and if I land in the stars, I've got a great life already.

Host (49:20)
that we can take this part out because I don't this is like a random question yeah ⁓ but I do really question and think about how influential that could be with our youth and like developing a youth program yep or even like an art class through the school district absolutely that is focused on yes we got a lot of mental health

Michelle (49:35)
Mm-hmm.

you

Host (49:49)
issues with our youth, get becoming aware of a very major thing. But how cool would that be if there's a

Michelle (49:51)
I know. I'm very- IS.

And

the arts are my answer to these mental health.

Host (49:59)
To

have an art class that you could take, get credit for, but then learn, do your own thing, but with our youth.

Michelle (50:08)
Yep, absolutely. And I've had the opportunity to teach classes at Foundry and to work with youth who are struggling with mental health issues and using photography as a vehicle for communication and healing.

Host (50:21)
That would be so cool. Just my teacher side of me. I'm like...

Michelle (50:23)
Absolutely, and what we need. Yeah,

absolutely. I've definitely had these opportunities and I'm looking for more. And I think the youth is where you can make the greatest impact.

Host (50:33)
Yeah, and I feel like our youth is getting- well, this is probably not a fair statement to make.

it's how I feel and I don't know why I feel this way. Cool. This is how I feel. I don't know if there's any, like I'm wondering where this is coming from but I feel like the youth, well are we though? See I'm questioning my own thought. I was originally thinking I feel like the youth today are more creative but then are they?

Michelle (50:45)
I'm feeling... ...bad.

Yes.

I would say that they are. I feel that they are.

Host (51:05)
I feel like we're losing our creativity because we have so much screen time sure that we're not We're not itching that creativity outlet because we're the kids are stuck on their screen so much, but maybe

Michelle (51:18)
It's

a different type of creativity. So when I go back to like my original training, like building photo collages, we used to do that like in hard call. Yeah, we would print photos, we would make collages. Now when I've worked with people doing therapeutic photography, it's a lot more digital. Exactly.

Host (51:27)
Yeah.

on the procreator tablet or something.

Michelle (51:38)
And I don't think it necessarily waters down the art. Like I'm an analog person as well. We're probably about the same age group. So there's the nostalgic, the tangibleness of it. And that's what I love personally. But I respect that people have different processes as well.

Host (51:53)
Yeah,

do you know where my do you get where like my mind brain was going there?

Michelle (51:57)
You're questioning whether the digital life is more creative.

I think they are. It's just different. It has a different flavor.

Host (52:04)
Yeah, but I see that, you know, we're talking about our kids and the kids age that we have. You know, obviously you see this horrendous, well, I think it's beautiful, but it is a mess. They're craft table. ⁓ If you say, and I think this is any kid in any human is you can let them watch TV. They'll sit there for hours watching TV like a zombie. And if you say no, it's a no screen time day.

Michelle (52:17)
I love it. It makes me so happy.

Host (52:33)
Well then they're actually making crafts and they're playing their guitar and their piano. But if you let them have the screen, then they're just sitting there doing nothing. And I think, you know, and then on the weekend they're complaining that they were bored. I'm like, you're supposed to be

Michelle (52:44)
It's an addiction, right? absolutely.

Yeah, right? Apparently boredom's healthy.

Host (52:56)
Boredom, like

creativity comes from boredom. if you are bored, that means your brain is going to think of something to do. in that process, you will be creative. I don't think you're bored enough. We need to reassess our life right now.

Michelle (53:12)
I like your parenting style, I understand. And you know, I'm really grateful with my own teenagers, they've come to this realization on their own. yeah. They had enough screen time that they got tired of it and they wanted more real life. They came to that.

Host (53:24)
yeah when it's

and it's interesting because they get they actually get a lot of screen time at school like there's so much screen time at school and you're like

Michelle (53:33)
⁓

I'm actually homeschooling my 13 year old because the system just wasn't working for us.

Host (53:39)
doesn't work for everybody. And that's

such a privilege that you're able to. What a beautiful thing. But what am I doing? What else? We got time here. What else do want to talk about? You got anything else you want to dabble on?

Michelle (53:45)
apps.

I know I wanted to talk about the wedding industry. We can talk about, you know, the other types of photography that I enjoy doing. ⁓

Host (54:05)
So do you have any other types of photography you enjoy doing other than the wedding?

Michelle (54:09)
Yes, I mean weddings are my favorite because I love love but I'm a fan of love in all forms So I gain a lot of joy from family photo shoots meeting different families Intergenerational family photo shoots. I had one last weekend. That was so much fun. They were celebrating granny's 90th birthday ⁓ wow granny was such a character and she had so much fun and it was so enjoyable for me to play into her personality and feel like I'm a part of people's family moments

It's such a joy for me. And like I said, I've been present at photo shoots that are maybe more difficult and not as joyful a reunion between family members who haven't seen each other for a long time. And it's such an honor for me to be invited to those moments. You know, it never escapes me what an honor and privilege it is to be invited into people's personal lives to capture these moments for them. So I really enjoy family photography. One of my favorite things that I've been doing a lot of in the last five years

is proposal photo shoots. So you know somebody will call me and say I want to propose to my partner but it's a surprise can you help me set this up as a surprise and I've done hundreds of these and they are so much fun. I usually have like a little story going on with my second shooter assistant whoever I'm working with at the time where you know we did one a couple weeks ago we were pretending that my son was taking his graduation photos so I had the camera pretending I was taking photos of him meanwhile

out of the corner of my eye, I'm waiting for this guy to get down on his knee and propose to his girlfriend. So the second I see him get down on his knee out of the corner of my eye, I shift the camera and start photographing the scene. And those are so much fun because the person being proposed to you is always so surprised, so blown away. It's such a

beautifully emotional moment to watch them say yes, and then we take a little, you know, tour of wherever we are. It's usually a one-hour photo shoot after the proposal, and those have been so enjoyable for me. I've really seen that trend picking up. There's also engagement photo sessions. They're included in my eight-hour wedding photography package, and a lot of other people will hire me for those to get to know me or do an engagement session while they're visiting.

Okanagan on vacation from wherever they usually live. That's another thing I've seen a lot is people coming on vacation and wanting vacation photos. So families who are having a vacation in the Okanagan, who want to remember their happy times here with a photo shoot, or couples who want to do a romantic shoot. Those have been so much fun for me.

So engagements, proposal, family, weddings. I'm also a huge fan of event photography. So any kind of event, especially music.

I actually started my photography journey by photographing concerts in Vancouver. Those were all the first photo shoots that I did. So still a really huge fan of photographing musical performances, artists in action. I find myself called a lot to like nonprofit causes. CMHA, for example, will ask me to capture like their heartstrings fundraiser for men's mental health. I really enjoy the event aspect of things. The only thing I don't do is maternity.

and babies, but every other kind of love I'm a huge fan of.

Host (57:31)
Can I ask why you don't like doing maternity and babies?

Michelle (57:35)
Absolutely. So I...

have an active PTSD which I'm very comfortable talking about.

⁓ as a response to a late term loss in my own pregnancy, my daughter actually died while she was being born. So I was in the middle of labor and they told me that the baby had died. So I've been working really hard on healing my own PTSD. That's been a result of that through therapy, through art therapy, through my own art therapy. This is a lot of the depth of my projects, right? Like the end of life, the end of things. I cope with my.

pain through the arts. And you know, this was 10 years ago and it's not much easier to talk about, but I do feel like it's really important to share stories of healing with other people. Not just I'm suffering, this is what happened, but this is what I'm doing about it. This is my action towards healing. So I was doing maternity and newborn for a while, but eventually I came to the self-knowledge that it's just too hard for me.

and it's just too triggering so I stay out of that realm but thank you for asking. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about that. think women need to know that these things happen and that you can heal and recover.

Host (58:55)
Yeah, my I won't put this on because it's my mom's thing, but I lost a brother the same way my mom during people don't talk about it. know, it's just ⁓ Gregor got strangled by the cord. But then ⁓ you. Yeah, yeah, and he died on my dad's birthday. My dad didn't like celebrate his birthday for a while till he died. didn't Yeah, and I was like.

Michelle (59:08)
Yeah, that kind of thing. I still think of him by name, It's power.

familiar with this loss.

Host (59:24)
too young like I was like you know but she's 76 now and it's still

You know, yeah, like it's.

Michelle (59:35)
I appreciate you sharing that with me because I get impatient with myself occasionally. Like, why am I not better? Why am I not healed? Why am I not recovered? And I think a lot of it is about giving voice to the suffering and letting your story be told and heard in a safe space.

Host (59:52)
Yeah, and it's like... It's so... Such deeply profoundly yet unique... Like very, very few people will ever experience that. So they're the network and support and understanding. It's like... Not wanting to go to baby showers before the baby's born. You know? Like I have a hard time with that. I have a very hard time with that.

Michelle (1:00:11)
Exactly.

this hits

you too.

Host (1:00:17)
It wasn't

even my thing, but I see it through my mom and like, why doesn't my mom like to go to baby showers before the baby's born or name the baby before it's born? We went to baby shower and then they're doing like the naming game. I could see on my mom's face and I was like, oh wow, like you never know. This is supposed to be this joyous time. But then you're like, you know, like you don't know. yeah, and it's

Michelle (1:00:41)
You

wouldn't know unless you've experienced that, right? Yeah. And I know that I've felt a lot of maybe like blame the victim kind of stuff, like what were you doing that created that situation? And that's been hard for me to get my head out of that I didn't do anything to contribute. It's just nature and it's unfair and this is where a lot of my art comes from is trying to make peace.

with this type of grief and it's working for me it's my process and it works and I want to share it with others.

Host (1:01:10)
Yeah, it's so powerful to share it. You know, I think that's a beautiful time about the time or beautiful time, beautiful thing about the time we're living in too is that people are talking more.

Michelle (1:01:22)
They are. think that's a very important part of mental health and giving voice to resilience too. In all my projects, I try very hard not to focus on the suffering, but to focus on the resilience. I acknowledge that the suffering is there, but how can we heal? How can I contribute to healing?

Host (1:01:39)
Yeah, yeah, interesting.

Michelle (1:01:42)
Hmm. It's a big drive behind my business. So thank you for hearing that.

Host (1:01:45)
Yeah,

well thank you for sharing. Yeah. You got a cool thing going though, Like it really feels that...

Michelle (1:01:52)
I think

it's unique. I think it's a bit ubiquitous.

Host (1:01:54)
It's Nenita you found you.

Michelle (1:01:57)
Thank you, it's taken a while and it's really only been the last few years that I've truly settled into the dynamic elements of my personality and figuring out how to get them to all dance together. I'm very satisfied.

Host (1:02:11)
Now you had mentioned earlier that it's been like an incredible 15 years and that you're looking forward to the 15 years in the future. Is there anything specific or goals you have when you when you had mentioned that 15 years in future?

Michelle (1:02:24)
for

sure. I feel like I want to get to a thousand weddings. I feel like I want to tell a thousand love stories. I feel like I want to put out a photo book at the end of the day of like the most memorable moments because all the weddings are special, but there's some that are a little bit more unique. Like I mentioned, you know, the 80 year olds getting married, that was like particularly super special. Or like flying to the top of a mountain for an elopement or

Host (1:02:51)
What? You

did?

Michelle (1:02:52)
yeah, for sure, more than a few times. I feel completely spoiled by the experiences that this career has given me. I've experienced so much of life and I really noticed that I'm not tired of it. Like I'm not burnt out. I'm excited by it.

Host (1:03:06)
Your energy

is just so

Michelle (1:03:08)
energized

by it, like it just excites me, it gives me so much life that I still feel like even 15 years in, like I'm still getting started. I feel like there's new technical things to discover, there's new experiences to have. Like I mentioned earlier, no two weddings have been the same, so feel like I have so many more stories to experience. Sometimes you talk to people who are maybe feeling a little bit burnt out in their career path and I feel like I'm the

opposite of burnt out. 15 years in, I'm still getting started. Like, I'll do this for as long as I can. And I guess just intuitively, I feel like I'm about halfway there.

Host (1:03:49)
That's amazing. Yeah, I like that. I think having that energy is just like...

Michelle (1:03:58)
It's contagious. feel it on me. They come to me because they know how much I care about this, how passionate I am about it.

And the people that I've met along the way, I mean, that's worth mentioning as well, that I've met some incredible people in the wedding industry. I find the wedding industry is very heartfelt, is very passionate. They're there because they love love. And I've met some of the coolest people I've ever met, some of my best friends, longest relationships through the wedding industry.

Host (1:04:28)
Do

you ever come across and see similar people from wedding to wedding? an event or like the catering or the DJ?

Michelle (1:04:36)
For sure.

They've become our good friends. people that, yeah, I'd say DJs, makeup artists, hairstylists, wedding planners. I tend to get along really well with the officiants. I love the spiritual side of the wedding and holding that space. And some of these people have become very good friends.

Host (1:04:57)
And do you know ahead of time or do you just show up at the wedding and you're like

Michelle (1:04:59)
I know ahead of time. always have a questionnaire that asks who will you're efficient be, who's catering the wedding, and then that allows me to connect to those people ahead of time to give this person the best experience possible. There's some very, very good friends in the wedding industry. find there's similarities between people who work in the wedding industry. They're very heartfelt. They're very passionate about love. Yeah, I've made some really, really special friends and connections along the way.

Host (1:05:26)
That's cool. Are

you going to that, ⁓ the event on Thursday night? Which one? The one at the Laurel Packing House. There's a wedding planner putting it on.

Michelle (1:05:40)
Oh, the Halloween one. Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking about it. I think was champagne celebration. I noticed that. thought that that was so cool. Absolutely. And then I had my own event coming up in December.

Host (1:05:46)
Yeah, champagne celebrations and pop and-

Yeah, it looked really neat. Absolutely. ⁓

This might be aired after December. I think yours is in January. You want me to look? We'll just talk. it's all good. We can just talk past 10.

Michelle (1:06:07)
You're

invited anyways. I'll put that out there. You're welcome to come see my art gallery. It's going to be over at Rustic Real and there's going to be musicians and we're going to fundraise for the Canadian Mental Health Association with all funds going towards creating space for universal mental health care.

Host (1:06:23)
beside

the love.

Michelle (1:06:24)
to

go. ⁓

interviewing men and showing photos of how they overcame their challenges. So I actually had the opportunity after producing this book to create a documentary for TELUS Spotlight. So TELUS did this documentary called Into the Light, which shows me on the journey through photographing these men, interviewing these men, and showing once again how the arts can assist in mental health. They also took me on a deep personal journey in realizing how I use art to create healing and

and others and how that helps heal myself. It's quite a beautiful documentary. Tell us Spotlight, ⁓ I could send you the link and link you to it. It's visually quite beautiful.

Host (1:07:28)
Where can you watch it?

I'd love to watch it. Do

you have to have cable TV to watch? Okay.

Michelle (1:07:39)
No, they have it online. Yeah,

so I'm going to bring back the coffee table book. Yeah, I've had the opportunity. Yeah, it's really cool. They did a really good job producing this and editing this and I love.

Host (1:07:45)
Love to what?

It's like an hour in and you're just getting to like, oh, and by the way, a documentary done. do a lot. Do you have to do a lot?

Michelle (1:08:01)
And that really took off, like I was able to go to the Rotary Center for the Arts and hold like a talk with people about mental health and the arts. That's sort of where I always find myself is on the crux of mental health and the arts. And so we were able to like talk to some of the men in the documentary. And this documentary has been shown in about six different settings across Kelowna for people to experience it and have questions about it. And I've been on panels talking about men's mental health and very passionate about men's mental health in particular.

Host (1:08:31)
Very cool. cool. Man, yeah, you've done a lot, haven't you?

Michelle (1:08:35)
But it's all kind of the same thing. I think it seems sort of fragmented sometimes from the outside looking in. She's a little all over the place. No, no, no.

Host (1:08:44)
It seems

like from my pers- I didn't think of it as fragmented or over the place. I think it's you are-

You have this passion and this ability and you do something with it and these are the things you do with it. I see it like this. I see it as layering, not this.

Michelle (1:09:02)
Yeah, and I'm realizing too, like it's my personal reaction to injustice or depression or oppression. I feel like I could become depressed and give up or I could stand up and fight and I get up and fight with my camera. Gives you quite the impression, hey? Swinging it around like a lasso.

Host (1:09:24)
Except I can't visualize your camera. I'm such a visual person. What type of camera do you use?

Michelle (1:09:29)
have two cameras. have my digital camera, which is a $5,000 Nikon Z series. It's expensive, it's beautiful, it's very smart, it has a very big brain. And then for film, I have my Canon AE1. It's funny, it's about my seventh replacement of that exact camera because it was made in 1982, so it wasn't exactly built to last. So every couple of years, I have to replace it with a new one of the exact same camera.

Host (1:09:56)
that's funny because I think of stuff from back in the day as meant to last and now the new stuff doesn't It's mechanical right like it's got a lot of moving parts.

Michelle (1:10:01)
Yeah, I mean, it's balance for sure.

parts

to it. sure, for sure. And right now I'm actually rocking two Canon AE1s. They'll have a different type of film in each camera. You'll often see me like wandering around with three cameras like purses.

Host (1:10:17)
What's a lake? ⁓ How old is your digital camera?

Michelle (1:10:22)
Digital camera, I believe it's about three years old.

Host (1:10:25)
That's not that well in tech terms, I guess it's old but in life terms, that's not that old.

Michelle (1:10:30)
But the technology

updates so fast, you kinda have to replace the digital camera about every five years.

Host (1:10:36)
⁓ how

do you go about even beginning to... What am I trying to say? How do you even go about deciding what camera to replace it with? Like, where do you even begin? There's so much I

Michelle (1:10:49)
So, I I stay to the same family because I'm a Nikon shooter and I've been shooting Nikon for about 15 years. What I love about Nikon is the colour quality. My style is very colourful, very vibrant colours, very bright. And Nikon, find, reads colour the best, as opposed to Canon, which stays very good with light. So I enjoy shooting the Canon line for film and having the light elements of that. But Nikon is very much about colour. It's also very durable.

I can be a little bit wild as a photographer, like jumping up in trees and, you know, standing on the edge of a well or a waterfall or, you know, some crazy moments. Anything to get the shot. I've heard people say that, like, she will do anything to get the photo. So I've stuck to Nikon and the Nikon line because it's extremely durable. I remember one time at a wedding early on in my career, it was a...

shoot by a creek and I tripped on a branch and I fell into the creek and I went like swimming down the creek in my nice dress with my hair and makeup done but as I was floating down the creek I was holding the camera up like I don't care what happens to me just save the camera and so whenever people ask me why Nikon like this is why because it's indestructible you can drop it like anything can happen and nothing's gonna break it down so that's cool I've always stuck to Nikon

for that.

Host (1:12:15)
And I'd imagine like the functionality is the same like where you find things in the menu and the setting that you're familiar with.

Michelle (1:12:22)
Exactly. It

was a big moment going from DSLR to pure... What's the word? need a minute here. I want to say frameless. You'll have to edit this part out until I can think of the word. ⁓ that's gonna bug me now. Mirrorless.

Host (1:12:40)
Let me Google it.

Michelle (1:12:43)
mirrorless. So the new cameras are mirrorless. The original cameras, the DSLRs that I worked with for the first 10 years of my career, had a mirror inside that reflects light and helps create the image. The new generation of cameras are mirrorless, so it's more like a computer on the inside. And that's been a really big shift is understanding the technicality of going from a mirrored camera

to a mirrorless camera. It definitely renders the images very, very differently. And that's taken me a moment to sort of catch up on. It's made a big shift.

Host (1:13:19)
Does it have the ability to make everything in focus?

Michelle (1:13:23)
Yeah,

for sure. And that's your aperture. That's your technical aspects of the photography. So like a small aperture will have one thing in focus and everything else blurry. A larger aperture will have everything in focus. And that's part of the creativity of the art. Sort of like deciding what paintbrush you're going to use. Deciding what your aperture is going to be. That creates a lot of changes in the image. ⁓

Host (1:13:40)
Yeah.

I

remember I have a good friend who used to live in Philly and my husband and I went and visited him and it was the... ⁓ just a second, look who's calling! The school. Hello? Hello? It is.

Michelle (1:13:55)
Of course.

Host (1:14:02)
She's not feeling well. Okay, yeah, okay. Can you give me like 20 minutes? Okay. Okay, thank you. Okay, bye.

Michelle (1:14:12)
story of

Host (1:14:15)
Let's just

say it, I'm like, we gotta leave the phone on vibrate just in case somebody calls and guess who's sick? One sec, we got 15 minutes though. wait. yeah, so anyways, my buddy, he's in Philadelphia and it was, ⁓ this was, when did we go see him? It doesn't matter, but it was more than 10 years ago. And.

Michelle (1:14:21)
The little

because that happens all the time.

Host (1:14:39)
he it was the time when like the really high def tvs were just coming out like the super high def ones and and he had like big big big tv and it was and i actually thought it was the most terrible looking tv ever and i couldn't figure out why and then i realized that everything was in focus like everything every four and i and yeah you could see all the pores on all the skin but also like your eyes didn't know where to go

Michelle (1:14:45)
free.

Host (1:15:08)
because everything was in focus and I actually didn't personally and it was like a really trendy thing like this was like the thing and I'm like I don't actually like that I like a little fuzz I guess I don't know is it yeah

Michelle (1:15:21)
It's a dreamy quality. Absolutely.

know, reality is not always super pal-

Host (1:15:26)
And especially

when the tv's so big that like you have to move your head or like you have to move your eyes to take in the whole scene. I'm like the tv is too big for that.

Michelle (1:15:36)
I think that's part of why I love film so much. It's gentle. It's much more gentle. It's much more forgiving. You won't see every crease. You won't see everything. It's just soft and gentle. ⁓

Host (1:15:47)
The TVs

have gotten to that point where like I actually I don't like the big TV Unless you have a room that's the size of a theater Like the the TV's got to be balanced to the size of the room it's in. Absolutely. That's what I feel like I feel like we're like the TVs are like they got to shrink a bit like you shouldn't have to move your head and get a network neck workout to watch a football game, you know, You should just be able to stare and see

Michelle (1:15:51)
Right.

Yeah, you're losing that

Host (1:16:16)
Anyways, I digress.

Michelle (1:16:17)
No, I know what mean. And I think that's the art, right? It's sort of painting reality in a way that's more tangible, more palatable.

Host (1:16:25)
Very interesting. Well, now I feel a bit rushed. You can probably feel the energy has changed because I should probably go pick up my sick kiddo. I can't thank you enough for coming on. It was really nice to get to know you. Like amazing little life you got going on. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that event. Do you have a portfolio, like an online portfolio? Besides the Instagram?

Michelle (1:16:33)
hundreds of times.

You. Yes, nice to meet you.

Pretty cool.

Y'all sent you an invitation.

Oh yeah, I have a website that's been running for 15 years. Yeah, it's www.okanaganphotography.ca and if you go on there you can see my weddings, family work, proposals, engagements, events. You can also read more about therapeutic photography, my fine art film galleries, and my fundraising efforts. Thank you! Oh man, get the, my kid is sick. have to go. It was times that's how.

Host (1:17:14)
will do. Okay, thank you again.

I

felt it. I'm like, is my phone vibrating?

Michelle (1:17:26)
You of knew it too. big head phone. Big head. The number of times I've seen that show. You have to come get your kid.

Host (1:17:35)
Well and I ⁓