Host (00:05)
It's not here to there. You need to have all these little things and each time you have a job or you go to a new city, you pick up a new skill or a new interest or you network and meet a new person and life just kind of like, like water flowing down, right? Like it just kind of finds its way to where you are now.

Allisha (00:22)
Yeah, it's never a straight line. Yeah, at least from my experience. Yeah

Host (00:25)
this podcast is about starting where you're from and starting there. letting it talk Through your life to how you got to be where you got

Allisha (00:34)
I'm from Ontario. And I, ever since I was a little kid, I always dreamt about living in BC. I don't know. was like in my brain that I was so curious about British Columbia and curious about seeing the mountains. Like I had this inner pull that I was going to visit or I was going to live there. And it was from like a really, really young age. My parents both had never visited British Columbia. was just very much.

Host (00:57)
Thanks.

Allisha (00:59)
like an intuitive thing for me that I needed to see it or like, yeah.

Host (01:03)
What decade was this? Like when you were young.

Allisha (01:05)
I'm

gonna age myself, but I say that probably in the nineties. In the nineties. In the nineties. And, um, I did all the things, you know, finished high school, went to university in Ottawa. And then I had met somebody like my first boyfriend. He was from Nelson and I had the opportunity to come out here for the first time. And I loved it. I fell in love with it.

immediately, we'll love at first sight. Too bad it wasn't the same for the relationship. But I just knew that I was gonna land here. And then once I graduated from university, I ended up teaching English in South Korea. Okay.

Host (01:37)
You

Wait,

what did you take in university? All science.

Allisha (01:49)
I took political science.

And I did work a little bit. actually worked on parliament with an MP there for a short stint as an intern. I worked for a consulting company that did a of work on parliament. And so I was just like Dustin. I think what my parents had thought I was going to be doing is she's going to get a government job and she's going to have this like stable nine to five. And that was just going to be it. I was going to stay in Ottawa and that was my track. But I just sort of knew that.

Host (02:17)
When you're in political science, so were you thinking of going into politics at any point?

Allisha (02:21)
No, but

I wanted to support the political movements. Like I wanted to be in, you know, like in support of whatever that would be, whether that's like supporting an MP or doing consulting or whatever that looked like. But that's just sort of where I think I imagined where I was supposed to be or where others assumed I was meant to be. I was very obedient. know, like following where I should be. But then I...

Host (02:40)
Beam?

Allisha (02:48)
ended up breaking up with that boy from Nelson and decided to go to South Korea to teach English.

Host (02:54)
you

sorry to interject did you have a connection to that opportunity or where did that even come about?

Allisha (03:01)
I

I just I just had heard about other graduates taking a year off between Maybe getting a job or going to further education and it was a good way to Make some money and see the world and I was like, yes, let's go. Okay, so I did and I Flew with a friend. Okay, we both from Ottawa. We both went down to Korea together and spent about 14 months there

Host (03:20)
by yourself.

Allisha (03:29)
And I was really lucky. I was able to go traveling to all the different parts of Asia and into Europe. And that really changed me, really shaped me as traveling does. And I think that's when I really got bit by that travel bug, that sense of adventure, which is still affecting me today. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's like a core value of mine to be on adventure as much as possible.

Host (03:50)
It's nice that you've held on.

Allisha (03:58)
But yeah, that definitely shaped me and that was when I just became a bit more educated or aware of the environmental impacts that were going on that I just really didn't know much about, like the plastic problems, plastic pollution. And it was just really by observing, I was like, what is this? what's going on here? I never saw this before. And that really set the path to where I went.

Host (04:26)
could you recall a specific example by any chance of like a moment where you saw something with the plastic where you're like, whoa.

Allisha (04:33)
Well, some of

it was positive, living in Korea, you had to put all your organic waste in these plastic bags. I think they were plastic. And then someone came and picked up your organic waste. it was separate from everything else. And there was no curbside composting anywhere in Canada, I'm assuming in the 90 or early 2000s. that just was not happening. in Nelson. Maybe in Nelson. I don't even think they have it now because of the bears.

Host (04:57)
Yeah,

good point.

Allisha (04:59)
So

I was what is this? What do you mean? We have to put our organic waste in a bag? I was just so used to putting everything together and so that suppose, you know, it started my brain moving a little bit and then as I traveled Southeast Asia and I saw all the garbage and all the plastic and just piles of it everywhere I was shocked to be honest and I knew that I wanted to I didn't know what the words were. I didn't know the word sustainability or

zero waste or anything like that. Those words had not entered my mind at that point. I was not aware of those concepts. I just knew that I wanted to work in that field. I wanted to prevent what I had seen happening in whatever community I landed in when

Yeah.

Host (05:43)
It's

pretty powerful. So then you're in Korea, you said 14 months. And then did you have an inkling that you maybe wanted? I was a little expat for a few years. I was in China and then in Vietnam. ⁓

Allisha (05:47)
14 months,

Okay. ⁓

Host (05:59)
It was once you're in that little expat community you can be through all the networking and connections you could just your whole life you can just travel and people do people you work with do they just travel the world a year year or two here year or two there and then you get to see everything and did did that thought go through your brain at all to stay or to experience a different culture a different country or did

Allisha (06:19)
day longer.

I had it in my mind that I was gonna do my masters. Okay. And I knew that I was coming back. I didn't know when or exactly the date, but I knew that the plan was for me to come back and pursue postgraduate studies. I did not. I did it here at UBCO. Oh, there you go. And this is how I landed here.

Host (06:40)
And did you do it at the same universe?

Okay, was it because of the specific masters or the professor that was here?

Allisha (06:51)
No, I didn't even know exactly what it was that I wanted to do. I started communicating with professors up at UBCO. It had just transitioned from, I think it was OUC to UBCO. I think it was like the first year. And I said I had been traveling and this is sort of the, I don't know if there's a discipline name for it, but I want to help with recycling.

garbage and you know create policy and that sort of thing and they're like that's called sustainability and you needed to have done a geography degree to do that and I was like shit what am I gonna do now like I have a political science degree and so ended up I had to do all fourth year geography classes okay I to do a qualifying year I think that's what they called it and I had to get 80 % in all my classes in order to be able to apply for a master's program

in a discipline that did not exist at UBCO at that time. So I did what I was told to do. I got the 80 % and then of course sustainability was the term and it just did not exist. So that discipline is there now, but it wasn't there when I started. So I did a master's of arts in interdisciplinary studies and basically piecemealed a course load for myself that was going to help me.

I help educate myself and achieve what I wanted to do. So it was a lot of self-directed courses, the basics, research methods and that sort of thing. And I was just grabbing things from where I saw. And it was really cool because they were so new. It was all very new for them too. And I put together this quasi sustainability degree. Wow. I know it was kind of messy, but also really cool. ⁓

Host (08:32)
Because

you were one of the, not founders, but ground breakers.

Allisha (08:36)
I would say it was the first of an unofficial degree.

Host (08:38)
Yeah, and then probably, you know, they have this student who is like yourself and so motivated that they probably that probably sparked something in them and the world at the time being hey, let's meet let's we can turn this into something there's something here.

Allisha (08:53)
Yeah, well that term sustainability was beginning to become more common up at the university. All of a sudden there was, think, a director for sustainability and they had these sustainability goals. And it was as I was there for those two, two and a half years, I really started to see that discipline, that mentality evolve as it did everywhere.

Host (09:15)
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so then where did you go after that? You are very well educated at the

Allisha (09:18)
Where did I?

Yes, I'm educated and I had heard a woman speak at UBCO that I just like was also sort of a love at first sight situation. Her name was Angela Nagy. She runs a still does consulting company here in Colona called Green Step. And I just knew I was going to work for her. So I did some like low grade stocking and just connected with her right away. And ⁓

Host (09:46)
Did

you say st-

Allisha (09:47)
Yeah, low grade stocking. just, you know, went for coffee with her, started emailing her. There was only one sustainability company in Kelowna and all of a sudden I had this degree focusing on sustainability. I knew that I had Yeah, and so just before I graduated, there was a posting and I got that job and I started working for her for the next four years in public and private consulting. That's really cool. Yeah.

Host (10:13)
Is there any big takeaways from that job that or highlights of that job that you carry with you now?

Allisha (10:20)
Well, because Green Step was also in startup mode, to be part of a startup, I think, really set the stage for me as later on in life, I became an entrepreneur. And I saw the struggles, I saw the wins, I saw the gains. I saw ⁓ her getting her B Corp certification. I like, learned a lot and I got to work on a lot of projects.

and work with hundreds of small businesses and just do a little of a lot of things and get my feet wet, which I appreciate to this day. And I think that time with Green Step, those four years, was one of those milestones, but also one of those pivotal moments in your life that really, like you talked about, it's not a straight line. Well, I was in one direction and I started working there and then all of a sudden the trajectory changed and now I was in a different direction. And yeah, it was pretty cool.

Host (11:13)
Okay, so then after your time came to an end, what drew you away from it?

Allisha (11:18)
I got pregnant and I became a mom and I was on mat leave and my son came out with some medical issues and I just wanted to give him the best start for life. I didn't know what it was that I could do but I knew that I just wanted to give him the best nutrients, the best, like I mean he's not eating obviously at that point but like just like do whatever I could and I started to learn about fermenting.

And I know that you like your kombucha as well. I started fermenting kombucha at home as well. when you make a lot of kombucha, as you know, you have a lot of scobies. I started selling these scobies. I put this ad up on Castanet and thinking like, we'll just see what happens. I woke up and there was like 15 people asking to buy these scobies.

Host (12:04)
You do a following.

Allisha (12:05)
And I was running around town with my stroller and my little scoby babies in the bottom. And pretty soon there was too many people and not enough scobies. I started wondering what I was going to do. And I was making like a little bit of money and I met another girl and we started doing it together. And then we started Mother Love Kombucha. ⁓ get out. Yeah. I did that for the next- Rochelle? That's right. And then I did that for the next four years.

Host (12:29)
We love. We make our own kombucha. I always call it kombucha. But we make our own kombucha at home. Mine's a different story for how we got into it. But we still go to mother loves once a week and the girls pick out a new flavor. There's different flavors.

Allisha (12:41)
so close.

so I did that for four years and I call that entrepreneurship 101. of course making kombucha was not my lifelong dream, but it definitely satisfied that like creative outlet. I'm not really artistic and I don't draw and I just don't have that type of artistic ability. But when you become an entrepreneur, all of a sudden that is your form of creative expression.

It was pretty cool to see something that was supposed to be a weekend thing turn into what it was after four years and even what it is now. Right. And so I learned so many lessons, some really amazing lessons, some really tough lessons in that process that again shaped where I am today. That was another turn in the trajectory for me. And once I became an entrepreneur, there was no way that I was going to be employed again.

Host (13:35)
⁓ can I ask what age you are at this point after you? That would be two children though.

Allisha (13:38)
Yes. So I

had birthed Bing in 2000 and we'll just say 15 and a 14 and Luna came out in 2017. So pregnant running a business, making kombucha every day. So I think I'm around, I think I'm like 30, 37 by the time it ended 38 by the time it ended.

Host (14:03)
let's just reflect here on this life. You have a university degree, then the whole university life is amazing in itself. you've traveled, you've traveled all over the world, so you have that education. You have your master's education. You have the education of working four years and a start. Well, is it considered a startup?

Allisha (14:22)
I think the first five years, yeah, would say it was a startup. It was still getting its crown.

Host (14:28)
Which

is so educational in itself. Yeah, then you have life education of becoming a mom Then you have life education of starting a business. Holy smokes Like well around

Allisha (14:41)
Yeah, and you know...

like

I was turning in a different direction. It felt like every four years something was going on.

Host (14:50)
This

is cool. Every four, ⁓ Wow. Do you look back and think, do you learn? What do you think when you reflect back on all that? Like, that's a lot.

Allisha (15:00)
I think that I'm very blessed to have the experiences that I've had. I think that it came, it didn't come easily. There was definitely some challenges and lots of really amazing experiences too. But I feel like, yeah, I feel like it was all meant to be. I know that kind of sounds really fairy tale-y, but I feel like...

I needed all of those experiences, even though in the times it was tough and there was definitely a lot of tears, cried and late nights and yeah, questioning is this what I'm supposed to, why is it so hard? It shouldn't be so hard, right? And now reflecting back, you forget about all that, the hard stuff, Or the hard stuff. Kind of like labor. Kind of like labor. Exactly. That was my next comparison.

It's exactly what needed to happen for me to be where I am right now. And I think that I'll have the same reflection in five years. If that turn for me that trajectory changes again, I'll look back to this little window of time and be like, I needed this to be where I am today. Who knows?

Host (16:03)
next. Who knows what that will be.

So right now, you've you're busy, well, not right now, but right now in our story, you have your two children, you're the end, this is now the end of the your time with Mother Ferment.

Allisha (16:09)
That's your turn.

Mother, yep. So when it was time, I felt like I didn't know really what I was going to do. I just knew that I wasn't getting a job. But at that time, too, you're just like, well, you need to make some income also. Right. So I took about six months off. I was really grateful to have had that space. I'll always be grateful to my husband and my family for supporting me and giving me that time to just sort of like percolate and.

also heal from like a big experience when you're birthing and feeding babies with your own body and birthing business and all of that within a very short period of time. It is the extreme definition of stretch and growth. And I didn't know it until I was out of it that I needed time to rest, that I was burnt out. I wasn't, you know, the best version of myself. I wasn't making the best decisions. I just needed time to sort of settle.

let the dust settle, which is what that six months gave me. But, you know, I wasn't able to sit still either. I started, I started doing some small projects. I started doing some consulting, started doing some mentoring. And then I decided that I was going to open a zero waste store.

Host (17:30)
Very cool.

decision but you've got so much background you you you weren't going in it as blind as a lot of other business owners because you've had so much behind you yeah you kind of understood what you're getting into yeah

Allisha (17:42)
Yeah. Add a couple notches on it.

I wasn't 100 % sure that what I was doing, I kind of knew that, well, I knew it wasn't kind of no, I knew that my passion was sustainability. I knew my passion was working with the environment, educating people about better choices, better practices, that, like circling back, I always knew that that's where I wanted to be. And opening up a zero waste store that wasn't just retail, wasn't just refills, more of a

a community hub, more of something that brought people together, not just for the purpose of consumption, was what I wanted to do. And so I started with the self-employment program through Community Futures. I also did that with Mother Love and that set me up for success. I went through that whole business planning, business writing.

process and got a really lovely business plan and you know I gotta say the process was pretty easy getting funding, getting a space like it all just sort of lined up.

Host (18:46)
in a space was easy. Did you start in the space you were in? Was your original

Allisha (18:50)
I did. Yeah.

And that was, that was kind of an interesting story. It is a big space. Yeah. I was, I was sick. Like I was sick with the flu or something and it was December and I was just like not feeling good. I hadn't been exercising and all of a sudden I was on my, I was on my phone scrolling and these, these stories from the women's place, TWP kept popping up and I was like, you know what? I'm going to sign up for this program that I think it was, forget what it was called now, but it was like an eight week program.

starting in January and that's what I was gonna do. So I pulled in and as I'm driving up to the gym, I looked to my left and there's a for lease sign. And I was like, ⁓ okay, cause I'd looked at a few spaces and nothing really was working. I wasn't being super proactive and I looked about three or four of them and I'm I'm gonna call them after I go do my gym thing. so Laura.

Host (19:40)
I gotta ask, was it with Laura? I

don't know.

Allisha (19:44)
like for the gym at the gym no it was with the tailor. But I think I know who you're talking about.

Host (19:49)
I love Laura, she's amazing.

Yeah, she's like she's super.

Allisha (19:56)
I think I was at a lift. Yes, I think I was at a Pilates class with her recently. And then I saw her on one of the TWP stories as well. you know her? you also go there. You used to.

Host (20:04)
Just through TWP. I used to.

And then she was a waitress at the Beer Institute. We worked there a long time.

Allisha (20:14)
⁓ okay. Okay.

Yeah. yeah. So, ⁓ no. So I went there and I started my program and I started reaching out to the company that owns that space. And I was super lucky I had, because I already had funding offers pending. I had this history of being an entrepreneur.

it was an easy process for me to get that. know that's not always the case for women. I know that's not always the case for new business owners, but I was able to get that space locked in, get a contractor and everything seems like really easy, ready to go. And then my first day of the build out I think was February 28th and that's when the world closed. ⁓

Host (20:57)
I was like, they're

coming here.

Allisha (20:59)
Yeah,

and so all of a sudden the pandemic was beginning and you're kind of in the sense of uncertainty. You don't know what it is that is happening. But all of sudden, you knew that daycare's were closed, the school was closed. My husband was now teaching his classes online. Everything was changing. And I had this exit. They said, if you don't want to do this, you don't have to do this because of the uncertainty of what's going on. I was like...

I think I'm just gonna go forward because I put all my eggs in this basket and I'm just gonna see what happens.

Host (21:29)
Did how long did you did you know to just go for it or did you kind of fret about it and think about it for a while? Because yeah, because that's a you know, it's hard to remember those times. But when it happened, it was like we did not know we didn't know what's going on or what it could what it could become.

Allisha (21:36)
I'm a thinker.

Yeah, I don't think there was ever the option in my mind that I wasn't going to do it. I just had to like think it through about how it was going to happen given the challenges of the time and just the not knowing. And I'm one of those people that likes all the information. I like to read the menu before I go to a restaurant. I like to get

all the facts. you're going on a trip, have, you know, my notes section with all the places that we're going to for going camping, the menus written out. I like my information. And then all of a sudden I'm making decisions without all the information. And that was one opportunity, one of many opportunities of growth for me. like I really got to trust my instincts here. I really got to trust what it is that I'm going to be doing.

Host (22:32)
We'll be looking at that.

Allisha (22:33)
Well, I was kind of my only option, but what was different between this decision making and other ones in the past was there was a lot of money on the line. Because it was hundreds of thousands of dollars to build out that space and all of a sudden you're giving a green flag during a time of extreme uncertainty. So I really had to put all my bets in one spot and I'm so glad that I did.

Host (22:58)
Yeah that's a risk take. So what went through your mind when you were designing? I'm assuming it was just an empty space? Yeah so then how did you go about designing?

Allisha (23:00)
Yeah.

It was a shell space, yeah.

I had a contractor who helped me with some of it. So he made the exterior what it was and then everything else was really limited. I wanted to get everything repurposed and upcycled and secondhand, but everything was closed. And so I'm like, okay, I gotta go to Home Depot and buy these black shelves because that's all it is that I can do, which I think works for this space.

I think it aesthetically it all worked out, but I had just had to make decisions that I wouldn't necessarily have made if I had the same options that I would have had prior to. for the things I did get upcycled, I tried to get all of my kitchen equipment and stuff. It took a lot of effort.

Host (23:50)
you know you wanted a kitchen in the back?

Allisha (23:53)
Because of mother love. So we rented out our space in the times we weren't brewing and we said no more times than yes. So many people were looking for a commercial kitchen space. And so I knew that there was a gap in our community for that. was a need in our community. I also wanted to support small businesses in our community. And I think the food producers in our community are part of the food security in our community and the economic stability of our community. And so.

I knew that was just like one of the pieces of the pie of it being not just a retail store. And so I built up that kitchen, not for us, we rarely use it to serve a need in our community.

Host (24:34)
Well, I gotta say that it's because of that opportunity you've given people that you have... it's like this roundabout way really helped our family because Casey from Big Fat Line, you were the one that gave her the opportunity to rent the commercial space. without it, would she be where she is today? And because of her...

My little celiac kid has a really easy place for birthday, school things, if there's anything we need to go get a cupcake for.

Allisha (25:05)
Well, I she did all the Casey did all the grit, but I was a tiny little slice.

Host (25:09)
But a slice because it helps like that from from listening to all these these people on the podcast a big step between kind of the farmer market or farmer market and home scale cooking to going the next level is that intermediary step that you just said where there's this gap.

Allisha (25:26)
Yeah, a lot of people want to scale their business, but they just can't afford to build out a kitchen. So this is sort of that middle ground for them where they're giving an opportunity to see, can I make this grow? if, I mean, I don't ever expect anyone who's in our kitchen to stay with us long-term. I mean, I would love for them to, but I feel like if they're just staying with us, they're not growing. And the whole goal is we're just a stepping stone for them to launch and open up their own. ⁓

brick and mortars like we had Okanagan pasta start out there, Born to Shake, Big Fat Lion as you know, currently we have Lazy Batch just opened up our own space. We have Happy Tummy's in there right now, we Fuller Foods who's granola bars. So many businesses have grown and then opened up their own space which I just love. Yeah, it is pretty cool.

Host (26:13)
That's really cool. And it gives such a warm fuzzy feeling, such a network and community feel to the city as well. Helping out each other and then you can see all the success stories.

Allisha (26:23)
And then and them helping me out too because also I didn't know what it was like to open up a commercial kitchen. We had a space that was classified as a commercial kitchen for kombucha, but there was no stove or oven or like any of that sort of thing. And so I learned to be better and to meet expectations as well because I did it equipment, services, communication.

all of that stuff, like you're dealing with a whole separate, almost like a whole separate business.

Host (26:52)
say we just have the same brain. We're basically running two businesses.

Allisha (26:57)
I feel like there's a lot of examples of that at Chickpeas.

Host (27:00)
No, that's really cool. And then I feel these people are going to pay it forward too. So right now you've... When was that? When it finally... It's been a few years.

Allisha (27:07)
Absolutely.

So we're celebrating five years this year.

Host (27:17)
And then you got your whole what's the sort of

Allisha (27:20)
The B-Corp. B-Corp certification.

Host (27:22)
Can you educate our listeners on, because that's a big deal.

Allisha (27:25)
It's

a big deal and I knew it was a big deal because of Green Step and working there, I think they've just achieved their certification for the first time and they were so proud and we were all so proud to work for a B Corp certified organization and I just saw the way it made myself and the other employees feel like it was really a sense of accomplishment and pride to work for an organization that had been recognized for their social and environmental impact.

And I knew that if I was to ever open a business that I too was going to become B Corp certified. So even before the doors opened, I think they call it B Corp pending. it's basically, it's not a certification, but it's like a little emblem icon that you can put on your marketing material saying, you you're working towards your B Corp certification and that you are going to be using the pillars of B Corp to

Educate yourself when you're making decisions within your company as you're opening your company So it's not I wouldn't say design designed for new businesses, but it works really well for new businesses to sort of like lay out that blueprint and create Just almost like ⁓ a lighthouse for you to go back to like I'm falling away from my goals or am I making decisions properly you kind of look back to those criteria and say okay No, this is why what I should be doing and making the decisions

I should be doing and yeah, pretty soon after that, we started working towards our certification and it took a really long time. yeah, it's an international certification and you would think a business whose whole focus is on reducing waste, making the environment better, treating their employees while vetting the brands that they bring. And you would think it would be a little bit easier because we're already, our whole goal is to make a social environmental impact. We're not say a shoe company.

Host (28:59)
If this is an international

Allisha (29:20)
trying to embed those values within a company that sells shoes. It's like we should have been easier, but it wasn't. And I think that's what makes that certification so special. Like the amount of evidence you've got to submit, like hundreds of questions that you have to answer, just the whole verification process on its own. takes a really long time. And we're just going through our recertification right now. Like I will be submitting our research next week.

Host (29:25)
It's the Corp values.

Allisha (29:49)
so that we will hopefully keep our certification for the next three years. But yeah, even that process is time consuming too.

Host (29:56)
Does somebody come in, come into the store?

Allisha (29:59)
No one comes into the store.

Host (30:00)
I

imagine that would be very costly for organization to go visit all these places.

Allisha (30:03)
Yeah,

so you do have to submit evidence, you're submitting reports, you're just examples and proof of the things that you say you're doing and to basically prove that you're doing them.

Host (30:15)
Can you highlight some of the things that you do that are kind of abnormal for a regular business?

Allisha (30:22)
Hmm. I mean, I don't know how a regular business operates. I've only ever worked for the ones that I've owned.

Host (30:27)
But let me rephrase the question some things that because you said the certification was really challenging even for you to get mm-hmm So what are what are some of the aspects in getting that certification that you had to? Had to do that you weren't doing or things you had to tighten up or make stronger

Allisha (30:44)
So

I think it's the reporting. So knowing the number of kilometers that all the businesses are from and where they're sourcing their materials, where we're sourcing our materials from when you own a business like mine that has nearly a thousand different products, to do that is very time consuming.

Host (31:04)
So for every I always go there because I you have beluga lentils and I love them. So for instance that product you have to for every product you have to have the whole background.

Allisha (31:08)
They are.

Yeah, well, we have to know where we're sourcing it from. So we're sourcing those lentils from Vancouver. Okay. So there we had, we just need to know about our products and where they're coming from. We need to know, another section is the toxic remediation section. So how many of your products, I'm fudging this a little bit, but like how many of your products are non-toxic? How many of your products are reducing toxins in the environment and

It just goes on how you answer then move indicates like how you're going to get your next set of questions. And so the ingredients. So you really need to be familiar with the ingredients that are in there and which is what we do. Cleaning supplies. Yeah. Yeah. Not so much food because most of our food is raw ingredients, but it's formulated products. But

Host (31:53)
determine if something is toxic or not.

Allisha (32:11)
On one sense, it's we try to vet as much as we can anyway. So I would be very confident in saying almost all of our products are either non-toxic or very limited toxins, like maybe sodium lauryl sulfate or something like that. But to go in and to really dive deep into the brands, if they claim they're non-toxic, we've got to go in there to look at their ingredients, reach out to them, ask them about.

ask them questions about their product. So it takes time. Business owners are busy and to even carve out time for myself, the cast who's been helping me quite a bit, our operations manager, and then reaching out to different brands too. It's just a time consuming process. And you don't know if they're gonna ask you for that report. So you have to, you gotta be prepared. You've gotta be prepared. So you fill everything out without evidence and then they come back to you and they say you need to submit

X, Y, and Z, and many other letters to prove that what you're doing is right. And so I don't know exactly the formula as to how they choose, but you don't, so I think that's part of the surprise. Yes, exactly. got to study for it all. Exactly. And then in order to keep your certification, you have to increase your score.

Host (33:15)
That's kind of like any exam.

might ask.

⁓ they don't want to come in too strong.

Allisha (33:26)
Yeah. No,

you can't be just how you were. You have to grow. Yeah, you have to improve to keep it especially. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a bit of a dance too, because you don't want to go 50 points higher because how much more will you get in three years time? But the same time you want to improve. Yeah, slow growth is good.

Host (33:34)
challenge. 21 years down the line.

Oh, isn't that the part like so it's kind of like the politics of it all. Yeah, like you could be doing these 10 things, but then if you space them out. Yeah.

Allisha (34:00)
Also, the standards are changing this year. So what I'm getting graded against, I'm one of the last ones. Whoever, in three years, it'll be whole different set of criteria because they're leveling up as well. They're becoming better. They have their own goals. And so whatever, this is the last time I'll be graded against this criteria.

Host (34:16)
interesting. This is so interesting.

And the kid is the kitchen part of that.

Allisha (34:24)
Everything. Everything. building. Well, everything under our, under the chickpeas umbrella.

Host (34:30)
Okay, so does that mean if people are cooking in your kitchen you need to know where they're from like

Allisha (34:36)
No,

no, no, because that's not my business. I'm just providing the space. But whatever they do on their own. No, that's their business. Oh, yeah, no, because then I'd be telling people how to do run their business. Yeah. People like that.

Host (34:44)
I was not part. Because that would have been.

Or

to use this space you just have to meet this criteria but then it's too difficult you know. Oh interesting. Okay so where are you gonna go from here?

Allisha (35:06)
Where am going to grow from here? I don't know. You know, like I know that I've signed my lease for the next five years. So this is staying hopefully for the next five years. And I feel really excited about the next five years. I'm really excited for the next year. There's some really exciting things happening, which I can't share just yet, but I'm really excited for the next, at least the next six months. And we have a really good team, which makes me

I'm really happy too, because I feel like a lot of HR stuff is tough to deal with as a small business owner. Like I do not have any professional HR experience or certifications or anything like that. And I think that when you have a team that's not aligned or just like not working well, that's when you really have to put on all these hats that you're uncomfortable with.

Host (35:56)
takes one bad ass

Allisha (35:57)
It

really does. It really does. And I've had very, very few in the last five years, which I'm very grateful for. And I think that's kind of the secret to success that the wheel turns on its own without me always being there, which I really enjoy.

Host (36:13)
I think that's what do they say? That's the sign of it's well managed when the manager doesn't need to be there.

Allisha (36:18)
Yeah,

so one of the big lessons I learned before was I just wanted to, well, I wanted to do everything on my own. know, your business is your baby. And when people speak well about it, it like really fills your heart. And when people critique it or have a complaint, it like devastates you, right? Because you feel little, you feel like they're insulting you or you feel like they're critiquing you because you created the product that is being sold. And I tried to keep everything really close to me last time. I wanted to be in control of all of the decisions and

all of the things that were happening. And what I realized moving forward into business number two is that I need to hire people who have that expertise, have that genius on their own because I can't wear all those hats and I have really good skills. I just don't have all the skills. And I think one of the reasons that chickpeas runs on its own when I'm not there is because we have team members who are better at doing things that.

compared to me. And I'm good at doing things that they can't do, but those operational things, you have to hire someone that really likes that, who really likes to run the show, who really likes to, you know, create a safe space for the team members on a daily basis. I feel like, of course, that's something I want to do. That's something I want to provide. Can't be there all the time to do that. And so to have someone who really is invested in that is one of the reasons for a business to be able to be autonomous.

Host (37:40)
You are profoundly reflective. Have you always been that way?

Allisha (37:44)
I

feel more so recently I've been more reflective, but yeah, I don't know. That's an interesting question.

Host (37:51)
Yeah, no, it's cool to listen to. it feels like you're really in touch with things that have influenced you and how you react and how you've grown and it feels as though challenges that come up instead of, you know, you have...

You even make the comment, well it was my only choice, my only option, my only choice. And I'm like well actually there's lots of choices, but the fact that you see it as the only choice is because you're just, it's the way you think, right? Because if you don't choose that choice, like when COVID hit and how you handled that, the alternative is it's not good, it's gonna be negative but you choose to see it in a way where you're gonna grow from the challenge.

Allisha (38:35)
I'm aware of the lessons I've learned. I've learned some hard lessons and I'm grateful for them because I think that if you're just on this plateau, must be, it feels really good. I'm sure it's little stress, but it's in the moments where you're really, really struggling where the greatest opportunities for growth exists. And at the time,

I certainly was not excited about these, you know, bottom of the barrel lessons. They suck, they hurt and they were sad. Yeah, they were sad and they were heartbreaking in a lot of ways. But then the growth that came out of that was exponential. And I am always grateful for that, for that experience.

Host (39:13)
it's very I love it I you know I have two I have two thoughts in my head if you don't mind me going off on a tangent here one so a huge sports fan and Edmonton's my team and for the second year in a row they have lost in the finals and you know my daughters are like it hurts so much it hurts so much when you're a sports fan you're so invested and

the reason why winning feels so good is because it hurts so much when you lose. The reason why winning the Stanley Cup is so amazing is because it rarely happens. Your team might never win the Stanley Cup in your entire life. it rarely happens. And to get so close twice and then doesn't happen. it hurts. And if they ever do win it.

the elation you get. if it didn't hurt then when they win it wouldn't really matter. Like there are sports all the time, there's games happening every day, basketball games, this and that, don't care, right? But it doesn't hurt when they lose, it doesn't feel good when they win because I'm not invested. But when it hurts when they lose you know it's gonna feel so good when they win, you know? And then the other thing that went through my head was

Allisha (40:21)
Totally.

Host (40:25)
Because you have our kids are very similar in age. I do feel that in our society right now we are losing the ability, not the ability, our kids are losing the opportunities to feel the bottom of the barrel and to feel challenges where yes you're going to fail or yes you're not good at something and to grow and rise out of that. It feels feels in school right now that

everything's about no one feeling bad. even we're not going to do tests because you don't want to feel bad if you get a wrong question and we're not going to have the old play day or not play sports day that they used to because only one team can win and then the rest of the teams are losers sort of thing. Like you just look at their life right now and everything all it's just it's okay for them to to have a negative feeling you know.

Allisha (41:18)
I agree with you 100 % with that, which is why, sort of circle back to the beginning of our conversation, why travel has been so important to me, not only as my 20s and 30s, but as a mom to show my kids the world. Because when you land in a country where you can't read and you don't know what's going on, the time is dramatically different. Everything looks different.

you don't know how to communicate, you're feeling this like, my anxiety, how do you move forward? And I feel this is why I want to and continue to show my kids the world. did, the first trip we took was a few years ago and it was in Mexico and it's great. we loved it and it was kind of easy traveling. You know, you kind of show up and depends on where you go, but you know, when you're going to like,

Host (41:56)
Have you traveled with your

you going with.

If you're going somewhere safe, it's probably easier.

Allisha (42:11)
Yeah, so it was easy traveling for them and it just didn't fill what I wanted it to fill for when I want to take my kids traveling. then last year, last spring we went to Vietnam and that did it for them. We arrived in Ho Chi Minh. Okay, that's where I live. that's where you lived. Okay, and then we flew up to Da Nang and then we traveled around there and then we flew back. So it was a month and it was great and they grew.

Host (42:23)
yourself there.

The month is.

Allisha (42:39)
Month is a good time. and so they grew and you know Bing started to eat foods that he had never tried before. He started to learn Vietnamese. We got ourselves into some situations where we were not able to communicate and we didn't know where we were but then we came out of it and I remember arriving in Ho Chi Minh. We were only there for a few days at the beginning. It was insane. Crossing the street was insane. I had been there before so I had an idea but I'd only been there for like three days in my 20s. So coming back with my family.

whole other thing and I wouldn't say we were struggling but we were definitely on edge. were like, okay, how do we? A lot of stimulus. lot of it. lot of it. then when we came back at the end of our month, we landed back in Ho Chi Minh. We were in the same neighborhood. We were masters at all the things. We knew where we were eating. We knew how to cross the street. We knew how to communicate. We had the Grab app sorted. we like were mastering a situation that we were really struggling in only a short time ago and that was

what I wanted to show my kids. It's like you show up with this feeling of my God, and then you master that afterwards. And that's where I think the real growth is because you're right, in the school system, you don't want anyone to feel that way. You don't want anyone to feel lost and unable to find their way out. You might feel secure. And I get that too, I respect that. But there's something that traveling teaches that, it's like skiing, you just can't replicate it.

Host (44:04)
Yeah, wow, that's really there's something like the smell when you get off the plane there. I love what it's the humidity. Yeah, tropical air.

Allisha (44:12)
All the things, all your senses are awake. Whereas here, I can do a lot of things with my eyes closed. I don't try to, but I could probably navigate, you know, independent or choices with my eyes closed. I could probably find my way to Bankhead for the most part with my eyes closed. especially when I lived in this neighborhood, like it was all just very automated. Whereas there,

You have to be awake. Your eyes have to be open. Your ears have to be open. Your nose is automatically open. You're on alert with your body to make sure all your things are on you and safe. And so it's just your life. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're actually, heading to Bali this September with the kids in the middle of September to the middle of October. So another adventure for them. I've never been, so I'm excited to see somewhere where I haven't.

Host (45:00)
that's so exciting. Yeah, it's so cool. There's something about Yeah, there's something about traveling. I haven't traveled in a long time I haven't lost it since the day we got back. I have been like, hmm Southeast Asia

Allisha (45:08)
Do feel that need to do you have that itch?

Where you go? Yeah,

it's a great place to go with kids, I think.

Host (45:21)
I think that I could have seen, at the start of our conversation, and I had asked you if you felt like just staying there and traveling, like that's what I really wanted to do, was just travel the world. So in China, I taught at a BC offshore school, and then the principal there opened up an American international school in Vietnam.

Allisha (45:35)
Okay.

Host (45:42)
And he asked a couple of us if we were interested in teaching in Vietnam the following year. a couple of us went. And I just, like the love I had for it. But the problem was that my husband was, he was a pharmacist. like pharmacy doesn't exist in Southeast Asia. It's like you and me can go just sell drugs at a store. So he has this beautiful education.

Allisha (46:06)
Yeah.

Host (46:09)
And he had already managed stuff like he was like we were quite young in his early mid-20s and he had already been the manager of a store and all that and Yeah, we had to come back him to like to work in his profession, but he did promise me That we would that we would not only would we travel overseas we would live Live as an expat at some point in her life

Allisha (46:25)
Absolutely.

Okay.

Pharmacists

without borders. This was a full- You still have to hold them to-

Host (46:40)
Or we had children. I

don't know when in life we would do this, but, you know, a lot of teachers take their kid. when we went to China, most of the teachers were actually from Kelowna and there was a number of teachers who brought their kids when they were in middle school and high school over to China for a year or two. And just amazing experience.

Allisha (47:00)
I know, I can imagine.

Host (47:02)
Yeah, but different when when you're teaching Your kids are usually the school pays for them because you're teaching at the school, you know what I mean? because the fees are ⁓ Yeah Like insane like yeah, very very very very high So that was kind of the benefit of being a teacher was you could your kids would get in but Yeah, i'm gonna hold them to it I don't know when that will be and now like now

Allisha (47:14)
a lot. Yeah.

You have to.

Host (47:31)
Both of our families, so I have three brothers, he has a brother and sister. Everyone's in Kelowna. We're all here. And my father unfortunately passed away a few years ago, but our parents are still here. So you kind of want to definitely stay around until, you know, they're gonna get older and need help. Yeah, want to be around for that. So yeah, who knows when it will be.

Allisha (47:37)
Amazing. ⁓

People come at the right time when it's supposed to, right? Like that too. I I know.

Host (47:58)
Yeah, and who knows what the world will be like.

So, but I do feel even though I say Southeast Asia, the thought just occurred to me that.

Like what I want to go back to is what it was with the people I was around and going back it won't be the same It's like what going back and walking your university, you

Allisha (48:18)
Well,

you know what they say, the only thing constant in life has changed.

Host (48:22)
That's true. So I'm like, maybe you should go somewhere else because you're not, I think I'd just be disappointed to what it was.

Allisha (48:29)
be comparing. Yeah.

Well, I will say when I was there, when I was there in my 20s and I arrived in Ho Chi Minh, I didn't go, I didn't meander too far because I didn't speak the language. I didn't know where I was going. I was by myself. And so kind of stayed around, did a couple of like organized group tours, but I sort of just stayed around. And this time coming in,

You know, you've got Google Translate, you've got this Grab app that is like Uber. It's like Uber down there. So that's very easy to, you can figure out what color car is coming in. You can communicate with them. Like it's just like, it just makes traveling so much easier because of technology. And I think it's easier to bring your families out there because there's not that, that like nervousness that, okay, the nervousness of the unknown because it's at your fingertips, which I think is what.

we are in right now in many aspects of our lives and I don't love it all the time but I will say that going to Asia with kids it did make things a little bit more just like I just felt more confident about it. ⁓

Host (49:33)
see that yeah we had there was a dr i don't even remember his name but i had a driver from on a scooter just this random guy that we were introduced to and he used to pick me up every morning and i'd hop on the back of his scooter and he'd scooter me to work and then he'd wait there after school and scooter me home and he didn't speak english and for the life of me i could not vietnamese is a six tonal language like mandarin's four vietnamese is six

So every syllable you can say it so like ma you can say ma ma ma ma ma and every one of those is a different word and they talk like for my name like alison that'd be you talk alison well for them that would be three different words but the tone of each syllable would be a different word in itself

Allisha (50:12)
Insane.

Not complicated at all.

Host (50:27)
It's one of the most challenging languages to learn. Yeah. And then the kiddos had a really tough time learning English because there's so many words that are very long. Like you have multiple syllables make up one word. Well, no, in English just book is or water is water. Even though we order it like water, water, wudda, depending on where the teacher like was from. But it's one thing.

Allisha (50:41)
with multiple meanings.

Yes, yes.

Yes, unless you have there and then it changes everything up.

Host (50:57)
you mean the way you spell. The way you spell. Yeah. But yeah, Vietnamese is just an insanely tough language to learn. And because we don't come from a tonal language, the only tone we have in English is we raise to ask a question. That's right. So because our language isn't tonal, it's hard for our ears to pick up on, to pick up on tones. But yeah, I definitely miss it.

And the food. my goodness, wasn't the food insane?

Allisha (51:25)
Yep, the food is delicious. It

was very good. It was very, very good. I think I had my favorites that I had already loved before I went there, you know, like your classics. And so I really enjoyed those. And then I can't remember what they're called now, but I discovered a lot of new ones while I was there too. I love food. So a lot of the reasons why I travel is based on the food. Like we looked at a lot of places before we booked.

Bali and I've never had Indonesian food, so I'm kind of rolling the dice here, I didn't want to go somewhere or I wasn't going to enjoy the food. So I did a little bit like low key research. I'm like, think I'm going like this. This looks good.

Host (52:05)
There's no Indonesian food restaurant in Cologne.

Allisha (52:07)
I don't

know. I've never heard of it. I mean, I wouldn't say it's like Thai food, but I would say it's like Thai foods cousin. Currys, noodles, rice.

Host (52:18)
of the influencers of everything there. Yeah and the like my favorite thing with both those countries all those countries over there is the street food market the the ability to walk and very very few people cooked in their house and a lot of homes didn't even really have kitchens because you eat

Allisha (52:20)
Yeah, but

Host (52:37)
the street out you eat out like the part the culture is you eat out the same and where it was where I was in China like you go in and you support your local people and you eat out and they and they almost find it insulting if you cook for yourself because they make it so good and it'll be like generational food stands or restaurants and they and they specialize and they make it so good who are you to think you can make it in at home you know like that sort of thing

I'm yeah you're right and it's so fun to just walk the streets and the smells and and all the choices that's fun that's the one the aspect to ⁓ have you been to Matthew at Tori Dori? Japanese food truck behind Unleashed it's on the other side. gotta check him out. There's very few places where you can just get like a little snack

Allisha (53:17)
No. ⁓

⁓

Host (53:31)
Right

because that's part like one of the things with food culture on the street is you can just go get a snack You're not getting this giant meal. So he does traditional Japanese Well, I can't say the name but like it's skewers on the grill so you can just go get like a skewer of tofu or whatever it is. you can just order one.

Allisha (53:45)
Okay.

⁓

That's a great little after school snack.

Host (53:56)
Yeah,

well, it's so cool. You can just walk over and be like, yeah, I don't want a giant thing. I just want a little bite of something. I love this.

Allisha (54:02)
Like a little nibbly. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Okay, well that's a good recommendation to go check it out.

Host (54:08)
check

them out so but ⁓ yeah anything else you want to talk about or discuss or i think

Allisha (54:14)
I mean, we covered my whole life.

Host (54:18)
And then some. Yeah, you've got an incredible life. But I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast. It's been really cool to get to know you. ⁓ no, I had more I wanted to... There's one thing I really wanted to ask you. Okay. Okay. So let's say...

Allisha (54:26)
Likewise, was a great experience.

Thank you. Same. Talk about OK, let's do it.

Host (54:39)
What do you think are the... because I find that if you're not... not part of, that's not the right word, but if trying to go more sustainable is new to somebody, it can be intimidating. So what are some easy places for somebody to start as an entry level into becoming more sustainable without having to do everything all at once? What would you recommend?

Allisha (54:52)
So intimidating.

the answer is choose one thing. Start small. one. Master one thing. Is it refilling your dish soap container? Is it swapping out to a bamboo toothbrush? it? Brush naked, right? We love them. Is it swapping your dishwasher pods to a more eco-friendly version? But choose one thing and then I promise you

Host (55:06)
anything but.

Thank you, Naked Brush.

Allisha (55:28)
ripple effect will happen. So it'll be like, or I should say a domino effect. You'll do one thing and then you'll do the next thing and all of a sudden you're refilling your dish soap and your laundry and then it's your shampoo and then it's your conditioner. But I would start with one thing. I would also say finish what you have. The least sustainable thing is dumping out all of your, maybe they're toxic, maybe they're not, maybe you just don't love them, products down the sink so that you can go buy something sustainable that

That is not what we encourage. I always say just like finish up what you have and when you're done, bring in that container and we'll fill that container up for you. I don't like to sell people stuff that they already have at home. So those are my two big takeaways. Start small, use what you have.

Host (56:13)
Those are great. Yeah, and then when you start with one thing it becomes your new norm So you don't think anything of it. You're going to the store to refill that while i'm going to the store i'll bring a second thing in and then it just becomes a routine No, tell me about it

Allisha (56:27)
Have you heard of the concept habit stacking? So

habit stacking is when you do one thing, whether it's health related, wellness related, sustainability related, something that's going to benefit you. But at the same time, there's another one happening. So I remember watching, I don't know, a real story on Instagram. And there was a girl talking about habit stacking. She had like hair oil in her hair while she was at the gym working out. So there's like two things. She's nourishing her hair while she's nourishing her body. And so habit stacking,

maybe through the lens of sustainability would be you're coming into Chickpeas to refill your laundry soap. At the same time, you're heading to the farmer's market, which is across the street on Saturdays and getting your local produce. So two things that serve a separate purpose that are under the same umbrella that happened within like a similar timeframe. Okay. Right. Or maybe you're walking to Chickpeas and you're getting your steps in.

Host (57:18)
Yeah.

Allisha (57:23)
while you are refilling your dish soap. just like two things, three things even that happen together. And I think that takes out a lot of the stress because time is a commodity that a lot of us don't have. And when you get to do these things together, then you have more free time. It doesn't seem overwhelming, right? Yeah.

Host (57:43)
I like that habit

Allisha (57:44)
And I think as moms, we gotta learn how to do that better, hey? Because we have a lot of time for ourselves.

Host (57:49)
I feel like in many aspects, there's probably a lot of things we already do that are habit stacking, but being intentional with it. Where else can I employ? And yeah, I like that.

kind of being ⁓ efficient with your time. well now let's wrap up. Okay well thanks so much for coming on.

Allisha (58:03)
That's right. Multitasking.

Okay.

Of course, thank you.