Host (00:04)
it, but You have a great voice. Yes. Yeah, you're good

Rob (00:05)
You always sound okay right now.

listen to the radio a lot.

Matt (00:12)
You

Host (00:13)
Okay, go for it.

Rob (00:14)
so I'm Rob with Railside Brewing. ⁓ We started the brewery, we're coming up just on our third year. ⁓ A little bit of a family aspect. My mom moved to Kelowna in 1950, actually came down the rail line to the ⁓ train station, which used to be the drop-off point. My dad moved here in 1958. They met the first day they were here, got married, had seven kids. ⁓

I'm number seven, so lucky number seven. We started the brewery just out of a of a whim. My wife and I were at Cannery Brewing in Penticton and she's like, this is really cool. You should do this. I'm like, well, we might have a property that we can do it in. So my dad actually built the property that we're, or the building that we're in in 1977. Yeah. So we've got some

Host (01:09)
Yeah, that's why.

Rob (01:13)
historical family artifacts in there. We got some like writing on the wall or on one of the posts that he was just his list of the day. ⁓ Yeah, so it was just a ⁓ really cool spot.

Host (01:27)
did he build it before you were born or do you have memory of that? Okay, so probably not that many memories if any at all. But do you have childhood memories of being in that building at all?

Rob (01:30)
I was three.

Not specifically, ⁓ built it to rent it out. So it was like plumbing shops, pizza shops, mechanic shops, ⁓ warehousing, all sorts of different things. Yeah, so yeah, so it was two different spaces. We took the demising wall out and ⁓ yeah, we just turned it into what it is today, which is pretty awesome.

Host (01:44)
Gotcha.

Matt (01:51)
a florist wholesaler when we took it over.

Host (02:03)
Yeah, it is pretty awesome. So to go more on that, I heard that your father had come on the rail line from Germany.

Rob (02:11)
So my mom came in 1950, so my dad took the bus.

Host (02:15)
yeah, that's us. And they met in Kelowna. On the very first day...

Rob (02:19)
On the first day they were here.

Wow. So there was a little bit of a family. They knew some people and they went out to my grandfather's farm and met my mom and the rest is history.

Host (02:30)
The rest is just...

Matt (02:32)
Is it true he was on his way to Australia?

Rob (02:35)
He was on his way to Australia so he was like from Germany ⁓ He was like, nope, I'm gonna come here so he had a friend of his that he does apprenticeship as a carpenter with and ⁓ He was like, okay, I'll stop there. I'm gonna to Australia. He came here and he looked around he was like, hmm This is a pretty awesome spot. Yeah, I my mom and

Host (03:01)
What was it like growing up with a father who had such an amazing craftsman skill?

Rob (03:07)
⁓ I learned a lot. Like I'm a carpenter by trade, Matt's an electrician. ⁓ We were always working with him. It was just, it was interesting. Pulling nails. Spending a lot of time pulling nails. Saving all the lumber.

Matt (03:19)
pulling nails.

Host (03:23)
Doing all the grunt work.

Yeah, that's so cool. And so you met in school?

Matt (03:30)
In

high school, yeah.

Rob (03:31)
Grade 12, 1992.

Matt (03:33)
I moved to Kelowna for grade 12, much like his dad and probably thousands of other people I came to Kelowna to visit and was wowed by what Kelowna is and... Fruitvale in the cooties. so much different place Kelowna and Fruitvale.

Host (03:45)
And where did you come from again? ⁓

how would you describe each other as teenagers when you were in high school?

Matt (03:58)
I mean studious

Rob (03:59)
Awesome.

Studying, like we were in the library all.

Matt (04:05)
So

much time in the library.

Host (04:09)
I love it.

Rob (04:10)
Yeah,

I know we're both sports guys, so we didn't take school too seriously.

Host (04:13)
Yeah. What? Say, and bring you into the same sport?

Matt (04:17)
Little bit, yeah, rugby together. Rob's much taller than I am, so he played the sports that I couldn't play, like basketball and volleyball and all that stuff. I'm from the Kootenays. we played hockey and rugby and that kind of stuff.

Rob (04:19)
Rugby.

Host (04:33)
more

like yeah ⁓ that's pretty cool okay so tell me more before you were going to start this business you have a whole career before this so how did you get into being an electrician

Matt (04:49)
Well, I guess it of goes back to high school. We had a little band of friends we graduated with that we still hang out with and see today less frequently than we did when we were younger. ⁓ one of the guys, his mom worked at Western Star Trucks and she was the secretary for the guy who did the hiring. So there was a bunch of us who worked at Western Star, ⁓ gave him the resume. The resume went into the top of the pile.

Host (05:15)
And you had all that studious library work on that resume.

Matt (05:18)
All that good stuff. ⁓ And when Westman Star closed, I was looking for another job and I wanted to get into the trades because my dad was also a tradesman and I was good with my hands. And ⁓ I wanted to be either a plumber or electrician. And I met a guy playing hockey who said he would hire me if ⁓ I can answer a question for him. Yes, he said, what's the square root of three?

Host (05:42)
Do you remember what the question was?

Matt (05:46)
And I thought, 1.5. Makes sense, right? Turns out it's not. It's 1.73. And he said, well, that was pretty close. So if you want to start on Monday, you can. And I worked for him for 20-something years.

Host (06:03)
Oh wow. Did you have to go, so was it, you were like an apprentice under him essentially? That's pretty cool. And you worked, how many years? 20? 20 something.

Matt (06:08)
Yeah, exactly.

20-something years.

as an electrician, so probably at the peak of my trade skills ⁓ when we thought we'd do something different.

Host (06:26)
Yeah, when you started were you you obviously the grunt to crawl do you have any good stories of like crawling into Like sometimes these electricians they really got to get into some gnarly places to reach stuff

Yeah. Any close encounters with feral creatures?

Matt (06:46)
not really. ⁓ I I went into under a picker's cabin one time because for some reason they put the hot water tanks below and it was just all mold and mice and rat feces and I got so violently sick. Of I didn't wear a mask because

Host (07:03)
Yeah.

Rob (07:05)
You're

going to talk.

Matt (07:06)
Yeah, young and tough, yeah. Pretty dumb.

Host (07:09)
my

goodness. Yeah, and I imagine you don't have much fear of spiders, Lynn, if you're an electrician.

Matt (07:15)
No, you just get a stick and you kind of wave it in front of you and it kind of looks like a cotton candy swab when you're done. I've had some pretty good, yeah, you come out and you're just covered in cobweb.

Host (07:27)
I have like the heebie-jeebies just thinking about that. Yeah. Yeah. Respect. Yeah. And then how many years did you work as a...

Matt (07:32)
But sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

Rob (07:38)
As a carpenter well With my dad I started early. Yeah But then I was in retail for a while ⁓ ran our family business for a little bit and then Got into my apprenticeship. So I was doing it for about ten years But my dad was like two hip replacements knee replacements shoulder shot. I'm like

Host (08:01)
Mmm.

Rob (08:02)
might

not be the best long-term game so ⁓ we were just having a beer one day and I was like I think I'm gonna do a brewery he's like do you want a partner and I'm like no no I'm gonna do this all on my own

Host (08:19)
Is this before or after you started brewing in your driveway?

Rob (08:23)
⁓ This was about the same time. yeah, so I was just like, yeah, you know what? I don't know about this. ⁓ I've got a, there are seven kids in the family and I'm like, there's a lot of logistics with the family business and stuff. And I'm like, hmm, I just want to do this on my own. And my wife's like, you can't do this on your own. I'm like, no, I think I can. And I started looking into it. ⁓

I'm like, I can't do this on my own. So I went back to Matt and I'm like, are you still interested in doing this? And he's like, yep.

Host (08:55)
What's the time frame between the

Matt (08:57)
It's

about a year. ⁓

Rob (08:58)
It

was about a year. About a year, Yeah. So I was investigating, I was talking to suppliers about tanks and all this kind of stuff. And it was just like, yeah. And then we just were like, okay, well, let's go for it. Let's see how to start a brewery. So luckily we knew some people in the business. So we just started asking questions and just kind of, and then we locked up the space. Yeah. And away we went.

Host (09:23)
I really

Matt (09:23)
Quitter jobs.

Host (09:24)
That's we're gonna get to that because that's a big thing I really want to hear the details and take your time about explaining how you like the first batch you brew I think it was was were you saying when we met the last time that it was at one of those like you brew places Is that correct? Tell me the details of like how you went from that and the next transition because you slowly got bigger over

Rob (09:43)
Like, tell me.

Well, we were cheap, So and we were like 20. So we didn't have a lot of money.

Host (09:54)
financially

savvy.

Matt (09:56)
from all the book learning we did in the last.

Rob (09:58)
Hey, book learning.

Yeah, so yeah, no, just ⁓ we were doing UBrews. ⁓ It was cheap and we were always going camping or fishing or doing whatever. And it was just a.

Matt (10:13)
It

was the cheapest way to get 12 cases of beer.

We started going in and we were bottling our own beer and it wasn't like making beer we are today. It's basically you pick the beer you want and throw some ingredients in the vat and come back in a few weeks and bottle your beer. And it wasn't good beer by any means.

Rob (10:36)
No, no, no, it wasn't. ⁓

Host (10:38)
even three or four.

Matt (10:40)
You couldn't you couldn't drink our beer and then have say a kokanee or a bud or a Coors Because that was it was two different beers. So you had to just stick to yours. Yeah Or not have them and have the other beer so

Host (10:55)
You need acquired taste? Yes. Okay so then when was the first time you decided okay this this is cheap but it doesn't taste very good? you thinking hey I could do this better? And then you did the garage?

Rob (11:08)
Not necessarily. about eight years ago ⁓ when the brew was becoming sort of a reality, I'm like, okay, I need to start brewing beer properly. So I went to a metal recycler, I bought some kegs, I cut the tops off, drilled all the holes. A friend of mine's a welder. He welded up, I ordered all the parts. Always had a friend come over and brew with me. ⁓

Three of the beers we have on tap are what we call driveway developed. So our crow's nest, our Paul's Bale Ale and our Summer Ale. So they were born in my driveway. And they're near and dear to my heart for sure. it was pretty fun.

my wife's very happy that we're not doing that anymore because the stuff is not in the garage anymore. I'm not taking pots and pans and like boiling water on the stove. Like it was chaos. Propane burner. it was like my one neighbor comes over. He's like, what are you doing building a bomb? I'm like, no, I'm brewing beer. It was, it was pretty funny. ⁓ but yeah, it was awesome. And that's what started it.

Matt (12:08)
Big propane burner. Neighbors peeking over the fence.

You

Rob (12:27)
I had one of my friends come over, he's like, how much is that? I'm like, well, that's $900. He's like, how much is that? $300. How much is that? I'm like, $200. What the rest of the stuff? I'm like, hundreds of dollars. He's like, why are you brewing beer again? Cause this does not make financial sense. And I said, well, if I start a brewery, need to know what I'm doing. And it was a huge advantage. Cause if I would have just started and not known a thing,

Matt (12:41)
Ha

Rob (12:55)
⁓ we would have been behind the ball for sure. So it helped.

Matt (13:00)
You've

always had a fascination with good beer though. You've always enjoyed beer.

Rob (13:04)
Well, yeah, I like beer. And that's one thing people are like, so how'd you start a brewery? I'm like, well, I really like beer. That's the crux of it for sure.

Host (13:14)
And it's not unique to microbreweries? Is the people who started it actually homebrew it? Or is it more people jump in right to the...

Rob (13:22)
I think most

people probably are along the same path as us. They might not have done what I did, ⁓ but they had a real, like just brewing good beer. ⁓ You know, if you're a doctor and you're like, ⁓ I got some extra money, I'm gonna start a brewery. Well, that's fine. But do you have the passion? Do you have the...

the runway behind you to kind of create the story.

Matt (13:56)
It's so it did seem like when we were doing our research for our brewery and We were talking to some of the other breweries and their owners and stuff and they were all very very helpful ⁓ It was a common theme. Everybody wanted to have better beer a better beer scene in Kelowna And they kept coming up ⁓ Certainly some owners made over a hundred batches of beer at home before they opened a brewery But it seemed to be a common theme better beer in Kelowna. So

Host (14:26)
Yeah.

Matt (14:27)
A lot of

passion behind the brewing industry.

Rob (14:29)
100%.

Host (14:30)
So if we go back to, you wanted that building that your father built. What was it like when it finally came open? Was it timing or were you waiting for it to, or did you put in an offer? ⁓

Rob (14:44)
I basically put in an offer because I knew the leases were, because I was running our family business. So I'm like, okay, the leases are coming up and I'm like, okay, here's, here's the deal. I approached my other siblings and said, this is what I want to do. And, uh, yeah, so it just kind of worked out timing wise. Um, yeah, we took it over and we, that place was from 1977. nothing had been done to it. Uh,

we had to put in new water lines, cut all the concrete. Like we're trades guys. So we did 95 % of the work. ⁓ Saved all the lumber, pulled all the nails. Cause I'm good at that. Cause I learned that from when I was five years old. And this was just after COVID. So a two by four was like $10. ⁓ So it was crazy. So we saved so much money.

Host (15:22)
That's pretty cool.

Matt (15:34)
It was during COVID.

Rob (15:42)
Do it like we were working 16 hours a day for eight months to get this place up and running. We dry walled it, Matt did the electrical. ⁓ Worked with the heating guys doing all the ducting, ⁓ removed the concrete. We did that together, dug all the trenches for the plumbers. Like we were there every day. We painted it. did dry walled. Dry walled like.

Host (16:07)
Obviously the electrical problem.

Matt (16:08)
built

the bars, the bar top with wood that his dad had saved.

Rob (16:09)
Yeah.

Yes, so our bar top is, that's another great story actually, thanks Matt. Those boards were in our family home, like we have a shop in the back, and those things were there ever since I can remember. So it was clear fur.

and we planed them up and over the years it got used up for different projects and stuff and that was all that was left and we had about a 20 inch board left over. Took me a long time to make the cuts to make sure that I wasn't wasting it because I knew I couldn't get this wood again. Yeah. So it's a pretty cool story. That is really that wood is seriously 50 years old.

Matt (16:58)
.

Host (16:58)
Just like now every time I go there and have a beer, I'm going to touch them and like, ooh.

Rob (17:03)
It needs a little touch up.

Matt (17:05)
And

if you look at the one side of the bar, there's a post that goes up in the corner that we wish wasn't there, but it is. And you'll see a little part where Rob's made some, what would you call that? Space where you'll see his dad's work list for the day where he's got plumber, electrical, all that stuff. So it's kind of, we left that cut out and saved so you can see it.

Rob (17:18)
Just a little space.

Yeah,

I wasn't covering up. Yeah, because I covered up the post with like some nice stuff. I'm like, I'm not covering that up. So it's a little like three by five inch thing with just his handwriting.

Host (17:39)
That's so cool. Now you have your garage set up up on, not the ceiling, but perched above the coolers there. Is that your beer?

Rob (17:53)
Yeah,

so right behind the bar. Yeah, so there's you can see our my homebrew display or my homebrew set

Host (18:00)
Did you know you were going to put that up there? was it a space and then you're like, hey, I think that'll

Rob (18:06)
I

Matt came up with that idea because we were just going to frame it up.

Matt (18:10)
We had a plan as far as Get open and that's about as far as it went. Yeah, so it was very much day by day This is where we're at. This is what we need to do ⁓ Like Robin mentioned we we were working 16 18 hour days like going home and sleeping for two three hours and waking up and the minds racing Okay, what do I got to do get back down there? And I think Rob slept one night on a pile of grain like a big bunch of bags of grain ⁓

and we're just doing what needed to get done.

Host (18:42)
Yeah,

because you, well, you'd quit your job. So every day that you're not open is. How, how was that conversation with your partners going up to them and be like, well, so I have this nice stable career that I am a master at. Now I would like to turn 180. Yeah.

Rob (19:01)
It was a whirlwind like it was just like yeah, it was solid business plan and It took us a little bit longer than we thought to start getting there, but ⁓ we're getting there. Yeah ⁓

Matt (19:16)
probably would have went better for me had I had that talk with my partner, instead of just doing it. ⁓

Host (19:27)
Just

quit your job one day and be like, I'm out. wow. That is fully committed.

Matt (19:32)
By the way, I've

quit my job and taken on this debt and we're starting a new business. So that was an interesting conversation. ⁓ Wouldn't do it again.

Host (19:43)
But it's going well now. So yeah, you're getting there. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's a while.

Matt (19:50)
And we're both very handy. So when it came down to the day's tasks, it was quite easy to divide it up or work together or and just, I mean, it just, we had just had to get it done. We had a very limited budget. ⁓ You know, we're both just two tradesmen. So we didn't have a lot of financial backing behind us. ⁓ We got a loan from a bank and it wasn't what we needed, but it was what we could get.

And had we not reused everything in that place and refurbished everything, got deals on stuff, we had a friend who we played soccer with who gave us a pallet of drywall offcuts. Like the corner was damaged. So we got it for nothing, basically. Just stuff like that.

Host (20:33)
Yeah.

Rob (20:35)
Yeah, I mean every every trade that worked there we knew which was huge because we're both trades guys and we played hockey with a lot of guys and We paid them but they didn't gouge us like I kind of go back to the doctor starting a brewery It's like you're a doctor. Okay. Well, here's your price. Yeah, we knew all these guys and it saved us

Host (20:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

That networking community.

Rob (21:00)
Yeah,

for sure. For sure. And like we've both been here, like I've been here my entire life. Born in 1974, Matt's been here since 92. So we've got some deeper roots here and it helped huge. Yeah.

Matt (21:09)
Any two?

Host (21:16)
But tell me more about ⁓ the other brewery. You had said that other breweries would come and stop by and offer help and stuff like that.

Matt (21:24)
Yeah, absolutely. We had, was almost daily, if not at least two, three times a week. ⁓ Other owners or brewers would just stop in to see where we're at. ⁓ they were always very positive and just maybe not tell us what we should or shouldn't do. But hey, this, this looks great. ⁓ Had you thought of doing this or that? And, ⁓ you know, at the time we were so tired and just working so much.

You know, we just, let's do this and it's going to work out great. But we also didn't know what we were doing. We'd never owned a brewery or worked in a brewery before. Hospitality.

Rob (22:01)
or hospitality.

Host (22:03)
Right.

Yeah.

Matt (22:06)
So all this stuff came very helpful because we were able to step back and be like, man, that does make a lot of sense. I'm glad we didn't spend the day building this when it should have been this. And it just makes so much more sense. And the brewing industry has been amazing and very refreshing from a trade standpoint where ⁓ there's not a lot of help. You if I went to the house across the street to ask another electrician for some help, they'd probably not so politely tell me to go on my way. ⁓

But in the brewing industry, everybody's been amazing. Just, hey, come on, yeah, come get, borrow this or take that and, you know, bring it back when you're done with it or, or just good advice. ⁓ I've heard stories about a brew brewer being sick and not being able to go and check something. And another brewer from another brewery goes and finishes that or takes care of what needs to be done, which is an amazing part of this industry.

Host (23:01)
It's so cool. And I think that aspect of ⁓ that camaraderie and the community and the networking, it would be really cool for more people to know about because you get you feel it's so uplifting and you feel a really strong sense of community and more connected to with everything going on. We hear so much negative that to hear these stories of like bond you all have. You feel almost a little bit sense of pride. You're like, yeah, well done you guys.

Rob (23:29)
Yeah, 100

% like if I was in a serious jam and I've been in a couple I could phone three breweries and I pretty much guarantee you the first person I called would be like, what do you need? Like it's It's pretty amazing and and vice versa like if someone needs something I'm like, oh you need this. Okay well Let's get you set up and get going like everyone wants everyone to do well. Yeah, which is amazing

Host (23:58)
That's pretty well. And you all have created such an incredible, like, go-to destination for the city. Because before the microbreweries, we've been known for the wine-raise, obviously. And you have your family that come to Kelowna and they always want to go wine-hopping. Well, now when family comes, you're like, we can walk out the door and actually go do our little, like, microbrewery-hopping in each location.

has its own vibe and is so unique in its style because it's a reflection of who you are and your story and then you can have a beer or two try it out and then you just walk down the road and it's not a big drive you don't have to drive you can just walk and this whole little scene you have going on together you make it better so that's really

Rob (24:47)
Mean and that's one thing we knew the rail trail was gonna be huge for us but we didn't understand the we're like the neighborhood Because there's so many houses around us yeah, like it's ⁓ it's we did we we didn't have the inner business model we

Host (24:51)
So it's hopping. It's hopping these.

Matt (24:59)
the sense of community right there.

Rob (25:12)
And the amount of people that are like, I just live up the road or just live five minutes over here. I can walk here in 10 minutes. I ride my bike. it's, it's, it's been super cool and just getting to know those people. ⁓ cause you see them in all the time. They're like, Hey, I can walk here. don't need to drive. know, I can have three beers instead of two. And it's amazing.

Host (25:33)
Ben,

that's the really cool thing about ... I know a lot of people don't like the high rises, but a lot of people do, and the density that's forming downtown, you're getting the walking culture. Like, everybody can walk everywhere and you can go and have more beer than what you normally would because you can just walk home. know, I quite enjoy that aspect to it.

Rob (25:54)
Yeah,

no, it's great.

Matt (25:55)
It's a real neat thing to see the sense of community because when we did our business plan, we got from ⁓ the city of Kelowna, there's 22,000 cars a day on Clement. So we knew Clement's side would be busy.

We sat there one day and counted people go by on the rail trail. So we're like, okay, well that's going to be busy. And we didn't have any numbers from Gordon, but we Gordon was going to be busy. But we didn't expect all the people that live right there that were just going to be our daily customers who now we've seen people who have formed friendships just from being there at the same time, a couple of times a week. Really cool.

Host (26:31)
that's pretty cool.

Yeah. And you have like the craft 42's got your coffee for the morning and then you kind of rock it out at night and you got rocket sub for midday and it's kind of that little, it's a good thing going right there. Yeah.

Rob (26:44)
got a food truck

now so he's got great stuff it's cheffery 911 and he's got fish and chips pulled pork sandwiches does butter chicken he's kind of it's always something different every week but it's been a good thing because the rocket subs they sell out sorely yeah so he kind of takes over the evenings and yeah it's been

Host (27:06)
It is nice knowing that if you're gonna go get a bevy that there is something you can there's a food option. That's cool. Yeah Yeah, do you want some more

Rob (27:15)
upcoming events.

Matt (27:17)
Yeah, um

Well, one of our biggest events we do annually is we kind of partner with the city of klona and do the go by bike week event so we start by doing a celebration station daily, uh, we partner with craft 42 so from um seven in the morning till nine nine thirty ten, um We at rail side because we can't give out beer. I make pancakes

Host (27:43)
Cool.

Rob (27:44)
was massive hit last year. no one else was doing that. Yeah, was awesome.

Matt (27:49)
I mean...

Host (27:49)
Where do you just bring out a big roll in a grill grill top or something?

Matt (27:53)
little plastic or an electric ⁓ element and bring up the frying pans and I made a London Fog flavored pancake so because I didn't want to deal with syrup or anything so it is mostly people going on the way to work so I can give them a couple pancakes off they go and they were a big hit so this year we're gonna do gluten-free pancakes with the London Fog so

Host (28:19)
That's pretty cool.

Matt (28:20)
Yeah. And then

at the end of the week, we do a big wrap up party from four to seven. On a Friday on the sixth this year, June 6th, we get a couple of bands playing. We do a big beer garden. And last year we had 256 bikes.

Rob (28:27)
Friday.

Host (28:38)
I remember actually walking by then. Yeah. I'm like, well, this is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the nice thing, too, about your place is you can lock up your bikes are right there. You can lock them up. But also how your building situated is it's or where you put the bike racks is it's very visible. Yes. You don't have to worry about your bike getting stolen or anything. Everybody's right there.

Rob (28:41)
It's kind of chaos.

Matt (29:00)
We've never had a problem with our bikes or anything.

Rob (29:03)
No, it's great.

Host (29:04)
You only have to worry about your bike if it's locked in your shit. That's all.

Matt (29:08)
Well, we actually did have a bike rack stolen.

Host (29:11)
The actual rack stone?

Matt (29:13)
Yeah, we got it back. We got it back.

Rob (29:15)
you

Matt (29:17)
that's been amazing. Just the foot traffic. We've had cyclists, uh, rollerbladers, roller skaters, skateboards, scooters, wheelchairs.

Rob (29:28)
We have a skateboard rack, which is pretty awesome because skateboards are always falling over and stuff. We have a rack and we can give you a lock and you can lock it up. it's that's pretty

Host (29:36)
That's really

cool. Yeah, and you guys host a lot of events too, which is fun Yeah, I remember you hosted the Canadian women's hockey team that one night we went down and was a lot of graphs So that was unique

Matt (29:47)
Okay.

Rob (29:51)
three gold medalists there, like it was pretty cool.

Host (29:54)
was really cool.

Matt (29:55)
one of the largest human beings I've ever seen.

Rob (29:58)
yeah,

he won the gold medal in the Paralympics for shot put. Seven foot.

Matt (30:01)
Yeah. Is he seven

foot three and what 50 pounds? Yeah. Yeah.

Rob (30:08)
Awesome.

Host (30:08)
bit like a like a not a lanky dude like seven feet and yeah

Matt (30:13)
Stalky.

Only a few inches short of like the world record for shot put, I believe. Wow. And I had my back to the door when he came in and I turned around and I was looking at his belt buckle. god. Big, big person. Great, great, nice guy.

Rob (30:29)
Super nice guy.

Host (30:31)
that's cool.

Yeah, that's really cool. So do you have any ⁓ future plans in your business plan for the space or?

Matt (30:40)
Honestly, we're just kind of getting caught up, you know, we're Still a such a new business and we're just learning every day what we have to do and do differently like we thought we were gonna make good beer and sell good beer and that was that was it that's That's how easy it is and turns out not It's a tough industry

Host (31:01)
What are some of the aspects that you find that you need to work on like that get better at?

Rob (31:07)
Well, I think we're there now because we're doing we're doing trivia nights. We're doing bingo bingo Do we want to say bingo?

Matt (31:14)
Yeah.

Well, we have a gaming license.

Host (31:20)
I see what you're saying. Yeah. You have activity nights. definitely pulls people in.

Matt (31:23)
Yes.

Rob (31:24)
activity

nights.

Matt (31:26)
Turns out you need a gaming license to do bingo, which we found out after our first, second season of bingo.

Host (31:34)
a ⁓ because there's a prize attached to it or even if it's like do people pay to do the bingo or is it free you pay to do it okay

Matt (31:37)
Because it's gambling.

But it's really how they perceive it. There are three aspects.

Host (31:50)
Oh,

tell me more about this. does this work? Yeah.

Matt (31:53)
⁓

There are three things that need to be present for it to be gambling like paying to play Incentivizing and Random chance if their skill involved it's not gambling but ultimately they make the decision on whether it's it's gambling or not And you just got to play by the rules. So we had no idea

Host (32:11)
Do

you have to pay for a gaming license or what's the process in getting that?

Matt (32:17)
A lot of paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a small fee attached to it. Now, it depends. There's several stages of gaming licenses and a gaming license for everything. Like if you wanted to spin the wheel or a ticket raffle, ⁓ all those things require gaming licenses. Yes. And you have to apply for them individually.

Host (32:35)
Really?

⁓ this fascinates me. I like learning about this stuff.

Matt (32:41)
Yeah, I wish I did.

Rob (32:44)
We don't find it fascinating. ⁓

Matt (32:46)
Okay.

Host (32:46)
Well, it's because you wouldn't know. I worked for a charity many years ago and just the process to put on a 50-50 draw at the... it was a hockey tournament or not tournament, was like a hockey jamboree, women's hockey.

And just the process to do your 50-50 draw to the books, it ends up there's so many aspects to it you wouldn't even know and then you read through it all you're like we are not we need to be compliant here. Yeah, ticking off all the things but so how did Did somebody was somebody like having a beer and then realize or how did they even find out?

Matt (33:22)
We got a cease and desist order from the gaming commission ⁓ So that was kind of At the end of our bingo season we we do bingo mostly just through the winter just to give people something to do when it's cold out and ⁓ Helps drive business for us. Yeah, so at the end of our second season, I got a phone call and ⁓

saying that they've been made aware we had a complaint they had a complaint that we were doing bingo ⁓ and they wanted to see if we had a license in which we did not

Host (33:53)
So do you have to, and then now do you have to like display? there paper, like your business license you have to display?

Rob (33:58)
And you make an announcement every...

Matt (34:00)
Yeah, I don't have to. Yeah, I have the license in my binder in which I record each and every game. ⁓ Each winner gets to sign for their prize, which makes it super fun. You've won a prize sign here.

Host (34:01)
Play it.

sticker or

something. like here's some

Rob (34:18)
And that's

the thing, our bingo is not chances where you're playing for $500. It's like you can win a mystery box bowling ball. It's more entertainment than gambling. It's a totally different. But it falls in the umbrella of gambling. we have to. Yeah, it's really quite sad.

Host (34:35)
It's just something to do.

It is what it is, but yeah. What else have you come across that one wouldn't think of ⁓ along those kind of lines of...

Matt (34:54)
there's a license and a fee to pay for everything. So basically anything you want to do, there's a fee attached to it and a license to apply for. Yeah.

Rob (35:03)
party.

Host (35:05)
Parking

lot party? Your patio.

Matt (35:08)
Yeah.

Rob (35:08)
Patio well, yeah, well there is yes. There's a patio license. Yeah, which would be annually but

Host (35:14)
Probably your hours. Do have to abide by certain hours?

Rob (35:18)
We do.

Matt (35:19)
We learned

the hard way. Yeah Currently we're at 9 a.m. To midnight seven days a week

Host (35:21)
How late are you allowed to be open?

Rob (35:28)
But we didn't open that way. So we were like, okay, well, Mondays we're going to be closed and we Tuesdays, Wednesdays will be like two till nine. And then especially Mondays being closed, long weekends, we're like, we can't open. So we had to go back to the city, do a whole new development permit.

Matt (35:50)
City Council.

Rob (35:51)
2500

bucks.

longer. Like we just wanted to increase our hours by like 10%.

Host (35:58)
Now, you say your hours are longer, then are you allowed to shorten them?

Rob (36:03)
You sure can. ⁓ to

go big. And we didn't know that. Yeah, we went through three different city planners and no one gave us like the elbow, like nudge, nudge. Hey, this is what like they don't want to tell you what to do. Right. But if someone was would have said, this is what most people do. Would have been huge.

Matt (36:07)
Thomas

Host (36:08)
Yeah.

It would have a long time.

Matt (36:25)
One of the council women actually stood up and said, I don't understand why you guys don't ask for 9 a.m. To midnight and then just opened up within those hours and we looked at each other. We're we didn't know know. And it was too late. Couldn't change it. Yeah.

Rob (36:40)
So that we have to do like like was the next year we did the application so so there's another ⁓

Matt (36:45)
Yeah.

Host (36:49)
It all takes time,

Rob (36:50)
takes

time and all the paperwork and all that. Yeah, it's not easy. So any other brewery that comes in like, we're gonna open a brewery. It's like, go for the maximum amount. We're like,

Learn from our mistake because that was a big one. But we didn't know. Like we're just like, well, you know, we're a couple trades guys. Hey, here we go.

Host (37:17)
and then how did you find out how many seats you're allowed to have in your

Rob (37:20)
The city takes the square footage and does a calculation. Okay, so it's a ratio And bathrooms as well

Matt (37:27)
Based off bathrooms as well. Yeah.

think you're roughly 33 people per bathroom. I think is the number.

Rob (37:34)
something like

that.

Host (37:36)
And then you can have, it's family friendly. And is there anything you had, did you have to apply for that or is that the?

Rob (37:38)
100%.

It's part of the manufacturing license so you can have families with kids as long as they're with a parent or guardian. ⁓ Anyone can be in there at any time as long as they're with their parent.

Host (37:56)
Gotcha. And then the food aspect of it, that is at a different ball.

Matt (38:01)
We

kind of met the bare minimum with snacks and you know our baked pretzels and chips and

Rob (38:11)
Yeah, you have to have some sort of food. ⁓ But we've pretty much had a food truck almost the entire time. For the most part.

Host (38:21)
And is the

food truck part of your land per se or is it their own? Like do they have to go through the city to park it there?

Rob (38:30)
So they can park it on our property, but they have to ⁓ they have to get Interior Health certification, business license through the city. So it's it's their own little business. Yeah.

Host (38:44)
interesting.

Matt (38:44)
I believe it's easier for the food trucks to get permitted if they get a letter from us saying that they're going to be based at our property, which our current food truck was what we did. So it was just easier for him to go through the process. Yeah. And I don't know the difference between that and being mobile is, but guess it's easier to get that permit.

Host (39:02)
Yeah.

Yeah there's so many things that you just wouldn't know until you need to know. Is there is there now I have so many questions like is there a limit to how many beers you're allowed to have or allowed to brew? So it's just you can brew as much as your back room will fit essentially.

Matt (39:10)
Which we found out.

Yeah, think if you get over a certain number of hectal liters, which is an astronomical number Then you start paying more taxes, but we're so small business our taxes are I think they're still overtaxed, but they're not as extreme as if we were say over a hundred thousand hectal liters, I believe The price goes up substantially. Yeah

Host (39:33)
interesting.

Wow. How do you determine about your beer, do you experiment with your flavors before you make a massive batch when you do your next flavor that's coming?

Rob (39:58)
Generally we do. We've got seven core beers which and our beer philosophy is traditional easy drinking beers. Like we don't have for the most part crazy 8 % beers or anything like that. Now we do have a small little pilot system so we can do sort of weird wonky stuff like we've got a dill pickle colch on right now. Very strange. But we've done anything like our colch was developed on that and

I couldn't keep up doing it because I only get three kegs. So we ramped it up to a big batch. So same recipe. ⁓ What else did we do? Or sour. Just started brewing sours. wasn't, we were just guest tapping it all the time. And... Crows Nest? No Crows Nest was driveway developed.

Matt (40:48)
But I thought we started as a small batch and it ramped up into a mainstay.

Rob (40:51)
we might have.

So there's our small pilot system gives us latitude to do if we want to do something really weird. But our core beers are, they're all kind of 5%, 5.5 % easy drinking traditional beers.

Host (41:13)
What is a sour beer besides the fact that it kind of tastes like juice?

Rob (41:19)
So generally they're fruited, but so a sour beer, normally a beer pH is like 5.3%, a sour is like 3.6. So it just gives you that sour ⁓ mouth feel. Gotcha. And then you add the fruit, which will kind of offset it. So we've got a cherry sour on right now. It's awesome. ⁓ Yeah, it's only my fourth one I've done.

So, but yeah, it's good.

Host (41:49)
That's pretty cool. It's a very interesting profession because you're becoming a master over time and there's always something you can learn. Like every batch is a fresh slate to experiment or do something new. And do you talk with the other brewers in town or that they're not similar?

Rob (42:02)
kind of.

I have a lot of questions for a lot of other brewers. I'm like, hey, I'm doing this or this happened or whatever. And they're amazing back to the collaboration with other breweries. It's pretty amazing. I can ask anybody and they'll just give me, they're not going to be willy-nilly. It's going to be straight shooter. This is what you should do. That's so Which is amazing. Yeah.

Matt (42:30)
We've even been able to use that system as far as inviting our staff to pick a beer ⁓ conjunction with Rob Yeah, and then they spend the day making that beer with Rob So they now they have a better understanding about the beer process and it was their beer. They it they named it ⁓ And they made it with Rob

Host (42:49)
That's such an amazing way to get your staff like feeling so connected to the business because they're now a part of it. Came up with that brilliant idea.

Rob (42:58)
That's pretty cool.

I'm gonna say I'm gonna say it was me. Okay

Host (43:04)
⁓

Some other brewery is going to be like, Hey, I gave you that idea. Yeah.

Matt (43:11)
But you know, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the staff itself, you know being interested in the process ⁓ even we've got hops going on our back fence that Rob's made beer out of real well thought up a name of back fence IPA and we're

Rob (43:23)
Yeah, that's cool.

It's

a big brainstorming session.

And I have no idea what kind of hops it is. Yeah, literally have no idea. It was a friend of ours who had hops growing in his yard and he's like, do you want some of this? And he came with his kids and planted it in the back fence and there it is. That's so cool. Like, what kind of hops it is. But I put it in and it's delicious. It's good.

Matt (43:33)
Literally.

It's a good beer? It's a beer.

⁓

Host (43:55)
Is that going to be an annual, annual vacation now? that's cool. What's the process of ⁓ finding the hops that you use?

Rob (43:57)
every fall.

There's, it's complicated. So the misconception is when you go to a brewery and they say, ⁓ this beer has 50 IBUs, it's not really a good ⁓ indicator because you think 50 IBUs could be very hobby or really bitter, but it depends on when the hops is added to the brew. So if it's added early, it becomes more bitter because it extracts more of the oils.

if you add it a little bit later, it just gives you more of the flavors without the bitterness. But it'll still be the same IBUs. So it's not a real...

Matt (44:46)
It's an interesting scale.

Rob (44:48)
It's an interesting

scale. It's not precise. So, cause some beers you'll have that are 40 IBUs and they're like super bitter, but then you'll have another one that's 60 and it's not, it's more smoother. It's more fruity. It's more floral. Yeah. So it's a, it's a real interesting scale and I keep educating people on that. It's like, okay, just try it. Just try it because it's not.

Like we don't, the back fence IPA is a West Coast IPA, so it's clear it's more bitter than anything that we really have ever. So it's more the bitter because I add it and.

But yeah, so there's different, they're called alpha acids. So certain ones have the more, the higher the alpha acids, the more bitterness you can extract. But there's different varieties, which in part, you know, can be grapefruit, it can be citrus, it can be pine, it can be, you name it. It's like spices. It's like coriander or fennel or whatever. there's, they're very,

Host (45:48)
It's just like wine and coffee.

Rob (46:00)
what's the word I'm looking for?

expansive. So yeah and they're always coming up with new stuff.

Host (46:09)
So there's no way to take a can from the store and understand whether it's a hoppy, bitter smooth from the can.

Rob (46:17)
depends on the description on the can. Some of them will be very descriptive. They'll put the IBUs, they'll kind of give you a bit of a breakdown and other ones are like it's 5 % and you have no idea.

Host (46:32)
I've

noticed over the years that I used to be a very pale ale-ish type of girl, I guess you could say. Well, I guess we all start off drinking like, well, maybe not all, but your university beer, like, kokanee and... Pilsner? Pilsner. Molson Canadian, you know, all that stuff. And then I turned into a very pale ale type. But over the last few years, I don't know what it is, but I need...

Matt (46:48)
You

Host (47:01)
flavor like it's like i can't taste the beer and when i was 10 years ago i hated hoppy beer i hated strong beer i just would take a sip and be like nope and now i cannot get it strong enough but i don't like the dark guinness style i don't know what that flavor is i'm not a fan of that

Rob (47:22)
caramel

malty

Matt (47:23)
the

Host (47:25)
Not a fan of that.

Yeah. But give me a like a hoppy, I don't I don't even know that's probably not even the right term, but a hoppy beer? But then sometimes you'll get one and I thought it was associated with the IBU and you'll get one that has this really high IBU and then you taste it and it's not strong enough. Yeah. So I wonder if it's the bitterness I'm after. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob (47:45)
could be.

Matt (47:48)
I find even seasonally, ⁓ I'm enjoying this beer this time of year. And then, ⁓ next month I'm drinking a different beer and I'm over that one. It's just, it's very seasonal and our taps and our sales reflect that as well. Certain beers just start taking off at certain times and say over the winter, it's not really selling as well. And then you get into spring and that's the number one seller for that week.

Host (48:15)
analytics

of that would be really cool. I would imagine summertime's sour and... Sour, lighter, cold, frosty.

Rob (48:21)
Sour lighter beer.

So

winter time our amber ale, our porter.

Host (48:30)
It's that smooth kind of cozy feeling. Hmm. Interesting. I never thought of that.

Matt (48:36)
It is interesting seeing people come in too and they're like, I'm not really familiar with a lot of craft beer and I like, you know, wiser, right?

Host (48:44)
I think I like

Rob (48:48)
Yeah,

do you have something close to a Coors Light? And it's like, well, try our Colch. Yeah, it's not, but.

Matt (48:52)
Yeah.

And seeing them get a flight and try some beers outside of that beer, know, the Coconies, the Coorlites, the Canadians, and seeing them enjoy beer with so much more substance and flavors. And I'm not saying anything bad against those other beers. Me and Rob still drink those beers. I go over to a friend's house and whatever.

Host (49:14)
Yeah, they all have their place.

Rob (49:18)
If someone

gives me one, I'll drink it. is still free beer. It's cold and wet.

Matt (49:21)
Yeah, whatever beers in the fridge is a good beer. ⁓ But to see people try these new beers and be blown away and not realize that their favorite beer wasn't just a lager. It's a pale ale or a porter. ⁓ Never had a porter before. That's my favorite beer. I love that. Can't get enough of it. It's pretty wild to see that in real time.

Host (49:44)
You know what'd be interesting is having because you're the flight the whole scenario being able to get a flight's awesome, especially for people who are indecisive and then you can try just a little bit of all these things, but it would be really interesting if you had like a blind a blind taster just for fun because we're so influenced by what we think we like and the color of what we think we like and then to actually taste these blind I wonder what what you would end up liking. Yeah

Rob (50:13)
Well, it's interesting. So my wife and I, do a lot of wine tasting and if you go to a really good wine pourer, is that the right word? So. So and they're like, this is our Chardonnay and they will tell you zero about it because if they say, oh, you're going to pick up grapefruit and this and they're like, oh yeah, I do get grapefruit.

Host (50:23)
Mine pour- pour? What does that mean? Yeah.

Did you ever see, did you ever watch Penn and Teller's bullshit? When was it on? It was on a long time ago and it was like a half an hour little show, I think it was half an hour, little show and they would just call BS on certain things. And one of the episodes was a, they had opened up a fine, in quotation marks, a fine water. ⁓ What did they call it?

Rob (50:44)
No.

Host (51:03)
And the waiters dressed really nicely, like to the nines with like white linen and the white linen on the arm and they'd have this...

menu of all different types of water and where they were from the world and the different notes and aspects and peach you'd pick up and so then they would the customers would order and in the back is Teller out of the garden hose filling up the wine or filling up the water sorry and it's the same water for every single time it's exact same water but because it was half

Rob (51:37)
The power of suggestion

Host (51:39)
So because of how the whole scene and everything you're suggested of those flavors and that I can totally pick up the piece.

Rob (51:47)
is the same thing.

that's why like when you go to a wine tasting and they're like I'm not going to tell you anything about what do you that's what you what do you taste? Yeah okay I got peach or I got this or I got that. And it's a smart thing because if you tell them that there's peach in there you're probably gonna get exactly yeah so it's it's just interesting.

Host (52:08)
Yeah, which is neither. Yeah, it's not a good or a bad thing. It's just a really interesting mind, thought and experiment to be aware of that. yeah.

Matt (52:18)
It's definitely you can see it like people come in and they're like I don't want to try those that's too dark or that's too hoppy. I just like that logger. That's what I like. And like you said, like you just said, they're they're closed minded to it. Just give it a try, especially in a flight.

Host (52:35)
And especially

in a craft beer, beer place, like the whole point of, well not the whole point, but one of the beautiful aspects of these microbreweries is that you can try these different things and they have unique flavors and they're developed in the back and like let's respect the ...

Matt (52:52)
And

each brewery has its own spin on that beer. You could go to all the breweries here and have 20 different pale ales. there's not going to be two.

Host (53:02)
You know what? That would be... I'm gonna do that one weekend. Just go to each one and try the same beer at everyone, the house of whatever it is. that'd be cool.

Matt (53:16)
Yeah, it's really neat to see what because, know, everybody has their own spin on their own take. Each brewer makes their beer their own way. And that's what they they want it to be. And it's different how you get all these different flavors and different beers. It's the same beer. It might be similar color, but it's a different flavor at each place.

Host (53:38)
And then the other thing that is wrapped up in that is the ambiance of the place too. That you could take the same beer and drink it at each location and you would feel, the experience would feel different, right? Like, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

Rob (53:52)
100%.

Yeah. So on the pale ale note, we have a blood orange pale ale coming out next.

Host (53:59)
Next week. this air when this airs there will be a pale ale. ⁓

Rob (54:01)
and try calls.

and

we also have a Paul's Pale Ale and Paul was my dad. ⁓ So his favorite beer was Okanagan Spring Pale Ale. Yeah. So this one is pretty much the same color but totally different flavor profile. ⁓ hey! So I brewed that for him. ⁓

Host (54:19)
interesting

You're have a picture of them up beside the little thing.

Rob (54:26)
I don't have a picture. I've got a great picture in my phone of him fishing, ⁓ which if we ever can it, that'll be the picture on the can for sure.

Host (54:35)
cool.

Do you do canine of your stuff? Just the...

Rob (54:39)
We

can our big batch stuff, ⁓ but you can only get it at the brewery. We don't sell it in liquor stores or anything like that. ⁓

Host (54:47)
Is

that another legal hoop to or licensing that you got to jump?

Matt (54:51)
⁓

I think we just have to get our labels Designs approved we can we can we just decided early on we wanted to focus on our building. Yeah, and just ⁓ I mean our goal was never to get rich opening up a brewery, but it was always just out would be nice It was always just to have a career and something we enjoy doing and ⁓

Rob (55:10)
Nice.

Matt (55:19)
And in doing that, we just thought we're just going to focus on our building, just our events and making a place where you'd want to come and just have a beer. Yeah.

Host (55:28)
And I think you've got it. You know, you've got it.

Matt (55:32)
It was always just supposed to be a place that me and Rob thought we'd like to come to and just sit there and have a beer, right?

Rob (55:38)
which we do occasionally.

Host (55:41)
Do you drink more or less now that you own your brewery? About the same?

Rob (55:43)
Both the same probably.

Matt (55:46)
I find when I go home now, oftentimes I'm having a glass of wine or a margarita or something. I'm not having the beer as much, but most of my days end with a beer. What's my work days.

Host (56:00)
That's fair, that's fair. Well, is there any other tidbits of life for your business you'd like to share?

Matt (56:08)
I think we, yeah, we're just, you know, just trying to put one foot in front of the other. Like, you know, when we opened this place, we had no idea what, what it was going to be or what we were doing. And we just kind of had to learn as we go.

Rob (56:08)
covered it.

Host (56:21)
Oh, I do have a question actually. What was it like hiring your first employee? How did you find them? Because there's a distinct... so my husband and I had our first business that we owned and he worked...

Matt (56:27)
best thing we ever did.

Host (56:38)
the 10-hour day, seven days a week, he had Christmas day off and there was one other person came from actually Vernon because he heard the hours he was putting in and gave him a Saturday off, which actually ruined ... He was like, he was just in a zone because he had to get up. It was like eight to six every day.

And having that day off where he got to sleep in kind of ruined his ⁓ momentum the rhythm so the next couple days were really challenging but then but the whole thing was he didn't want to hire an employee because he couldn't afford it yet And so then when you actually got to that point where you hired somebody was like, ⁓ this is a big this is a big thing. Yeah

Matt (57:22)
Yeah,

we had our our first employee, shout out Lisa, ⁓ came from the industry, food and beverage, and we could build the place, we could get it ready and get it looking the way it was, and we had no idea how to operate it, and she brought that knowledge to the table.

Rob (57:30)
Thank God.

Yeah, she was in food and beverage for like 20 years. So she knew exactly what Interior Health wanted when we had our inspection. She had all our books out, all our forms, everything. Perfect. Yeah, because we would have been like,

Matt (57:57)
Everything

up to run and she worked for us countless hours for free just donating her time just helping two guys try to get this business open and After our first meeting we talked her for a couple hours as soon as she left we looked at each other like we got a higher this Yeah, yeah and She's working there right now. Yeah, I Remember our first day we opened

Rob (58:11)
Hi.

Host (58:15)
She's still working there?

Matt (58:23)
I don't know how many times I had to step back and look at Lisa and go, what do I do? Because I hadn't worked a point of sale before. was Lisa. There was a lot of Lisa. Every five minutes, Lisa. He's on one side of the tap. So I'm on the other side. And we had to line up out the door. And we're just pouring beer, not knowing what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Host (58:39)
Yeah.

He

had some bookkeeping experience with your father's with your family business or was that somebody else did? Someone else. geez.

Rob (58:49)
Yeah, that was someone else.

Matt (58:51)
Yeah.

Rob (58:52)
I was doing releases and fixing door. Light bulbs.

Host (58:54)
Right, Because

that's a whole beast of itself is all your paperwork. Yeah. And all your tax.

Matt (59:02)
Our second employee ⁓ was the opposite. He came from the industry as well, a bartender, and ⁓ he didn't last very long. Yeah, he was... Yeah, and we've, I think we've only had two employees leave, one moved out of town and one we had to dismiss. Otherwise we still have all our original staff.

Rob (59:11)
He didn't last very long. But then we got other ones who were solid.

Host (59:25)
That's pretty

cool. That's a good sign. Doing something right.

Rob (59:29)
Yeah, we're lucky. got really, really good stuff.

Matt (59:31)
that we're very fortunate with our staff.

Host (59:34)
Well, the staff stay around when they have good bosses and when you have a good environment. So kudos to what you've built.

Rob (59:41)
Yeah, we

pretty much have two OGs that were like within a couple weeks of us,

Matt (59:46)
Yep.

Host (59:47)
Very cool.

Matt (59:47)
Very desperate for employees. We literally ⁓ our first week opening we just started checking things off the list. This inspection passed this inspection passed and ⁓ we got our final inspection. The fire marshal gave us our approval. Wednesday and Thursday we opened the doors. Lisa was like we're not ready we're not ready. Well our bank account says.

Rob (1:00:07)
on a Wednesday.

Host (1:00:14)
We are

ready.

Rob (1:00:15)
We were ready. It was funny when we were doing our construction, we had a whiteboard with all the stuff that we had to do. And it was like brew beer, hire employees and people were like commenting on it. was like hire employees, that's kind of important. we were like... It was so funny. We had no idea what we were doing. It was awesome.

Matt (1:00:32)
You

I remember probably like our second day we were just at the bar going like crazy and we had a resume dropped off. ⁓ Jenna dropped it off to me and I was like, okay, thanks. And then turned around and handed it to Lisa. like, yeah, some lady just dropped off her resume. She's like, what? Where is she? And I'm like, she just walked out. So she went and ran her down in the parking lot.

Rob (1:00:59)
in the parking

lot and she's still with us.

Host (1:01:01)
Wait,

wait, because Lisa knows. Lisa knew. Yeah.

Matt (1:01:03)
Listen ⁓

Rob (1:01:07)
Yeah, it was pretty funny.

Host (1:01:08)
You

know, there's something you didn't touch on is that which I believe you had told me another day before was that when you opened the brewery it was kind of unique because you had you didn't have to bring in Beer you had your own

Rob (1:01:22)
We got approved with a manufacturing license so we could brew right away.

Matt (1:01:29)
Right

away. They separated the building into two halves for us. Yeah, so we we could build out the back first.

Rob (1:01:36)
Yeah, so the front wasn't done, but the liquor inspector came in he's like, okay, you're good to brew. So we brewed and all our beers were usually when a craft brewery opens, they're rushing stuff. They might only have, you know, two, three, four beers and then they're guest tapping everything else. And we had our, our tanks full, our kegs were full. So when we opened our beers were on point, like they were clean. were because the front was delayed. So at least the liquor inspector.

allowed us to do that in the back and We got off on a really good foot like there was tons of comments on Instagram and stuff saying hey a lot of breweries and people are pretty forgiving they're like hey, they just open their beer is not that great like yeah, but ours were like all like we had I think we had nine And they were all like they were all awesome

Matt (1:02:27)
don't so, in my opinion.

Host (1:02:32)
I to

have felt good.

Rob (1:02:34)
it felt great. Yeah. Yeah. We had lots of other because a lot of the other brewers were coming in. They're like good beers nice and clean. Yeah things

Matt (1:02:42)
And I

think we were lucky in that as well, because I don't think every place got to get their manufacturing started like we did. So that was kind of like just a fortunate thing for us as well.

Host (1:02:53)
Yeah, I wonder if that's like how the building physically was made or that you were able to separate it or who knows?

Rob (1:03:01)
Or

we boondoggled this guy into a fairytale.

Matt (1:03:04)
I would like to think that with the brewing industry ⁓ expanding like it was that they finally figured it out that hey we could probably do things a little bit differently. ⁓

Rob (1:03:16)
to help these

guys out.

Host (1:03:17)
done.

Matt (1:03:18)
Our situation was we needed to be open because our bank accounts were empty and we had payments to make and we need to sell beer. And I would say that's probably why a lot of the beers aren't the best when they start because it's just desperation. Right? Yeah. You you'd love to make a beer and sit on it for eight weeks.

Host (1:03:35)
Is that how often they usually sit? Is eight weeks?

Rob (1:03:38)
For loggers and pilsners, yeah. But ales you can kind of turn around. We always try to keep ours about three weeks. that's quick turnaround. It's pretty quick, yeah.

Host (1:03:47)
What's the longest sitting?

Sorry. I'm just going to, this is my.

Hey mom, are you okay? Because I'm just in my podcast. Okay, how come you're calling?

Beautiful. Okay, I gotta go. I love you. I love you. I love you. Goodbye. My mother is taking my daughter to a doctor's appointment so I thought there was an issue. She butt dialed me. I'm so, that was not professional at all. Sorry. was like, my mom. ⁓

Matt (1:04:21)
So.

Rob (1:04:24)
keep that

Matt (1:04:25)
Yeah.

I think that is the thing about me and Rob, but with this business is we're, know, very much like that. We're just two guys. You know, we're just two guys who are tradesmen who started this. So we keep things light and fun and, ⁓ know, we make mistakes and laugh at ourselves over it. Yeah. Just.

Rob (1:04:49)
Bon trucking.

Host (1:04:50)
and you got a good energy about you. You got a good style and yeah, it's easy going. Yeah. You know?

Matt (1:04:56)
We've been extremely lucky over this thing. mean, we've definitely put in the work and the energy, but we just keep getting lucky with everything that seems to come along. Our staff are amazing. We get compliments all the time on our staff. The people that come into the place are amazing. I have friends now just from them coming in regularly. It's an amazing, amazing experience, really.

Host (1:05:22)
⁓ Did your friendship get strained at all throughout that? Not once. the look on your face. feel like this is a, if I say it enough, I'll believe it.

Rob (1:05:26)
once.

We've

had a few discussions along the way, but no, it's been our philosophy was, okay, if we disagree on something, what's best for the business? And then if Matt's right or I'm right or whoever's right, doesn't matter, what's best for the business? And that's been our philosophy.

Matt (1:05:53)
great. I think our friendship's been battle tested over the years. We've been roommates, teammates.

Host (1:05:53)
That's good.

Rob (1:05:57)
100%.

Yeah,

playing soccer and hockey together. We've been through everything. But yeah, we just kind of just, anything comes up, we just talk about it and it's like, okay, what's the best for the business? And neither one of us has really dug in and said, no, this is the way it's going to be. It's like, we're pretty even keel guy.

Host (1:06:03)
You know how to handle each other.

Matt (1:06:05)
So.

Yeah. It's been very good. Yes, we're

pretty even. And we came to that decision pretty early, like, because there's just the two of us that there might be some, some difficulty and it was always as simple as what's best for the business. You know, this is what I think it should be. That's what he thinks it should be. We just sit back and think about it. Well, that, that makes sense. Let's do that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just been that easy, which is also very refreshing to work with Rob.

Host (1:06:42)
Well that's nice when you get a partnership where it works, Yeah.

Rob (1:06:45)
Well, I mean, the other thing is, so I'm looking after all the brewing. I'm there. have like, if you've been to our brewery, set up is a little bit challenging. So I have to be done by the time we're open. So I'm there at five in the morning, six in the morning, doing what I have to do. Matt comes in. So I'm kind of back a house and he's kind of front of house. So we've kind of got our defined rules. So.

As long as I keep the beer going and he keeps doing what he has to do to sell the beer, hey, like life's good. Yeah.

Host (1:07:22)
Very cool.

Matt (1:07:23)
think our communication is really good as well. ⁓ We make decisions together for the most part, other than the small tiny things. for the most part, it's like, this is what's come up. All right. OK. Yeah. Sounds great. Let's do it. Yeah.

Host (1:07:37)
That's

awesome. That's really good to hear. Well, should we wrap her up? Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. to to know you better. Yes. It's really good to get to know you better. And I hope people get to listen and appreciate, just appreciate everything so much more.

Rob (1:07:40)
Let's wrap it up.

Matt (1:07:56)
fun just having a conversation.